Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. The first question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.

So my first question is, you gave some color on how costs have tracked in this third quarter. But just if you could give us a split between the cost, how much of that is for the core MF RTA business and how much is for the non-MF business, that would also help us understand how the profit and the profitability is tracking in those two segments? That could be one of the questions. The other question is on the KRA business, yo u indicated that you have entered into 25 new relationships with fintech’s. Now I wanted to understand that what is driving your ability to enter into these new relationships with fintech’s? Is it product differentiation that is helping you here? Because from a KYC record perspective, you are still significantly lower than the market leader. So I wanted to understand what's your differentiation there? Those are the two questions.

Okay. There are two parts. I will take the first part on the non-MF profitability expense, and then Anuj will comment on the KRA and what's happening in that for us to grow this much. See, I will give you broad guidelines in terms of how the non-MF actually stand. We had indicated in the earlier quarters, too, from an investment perspective, we are investing in Bima Central, which is the CAMSREP platform. We're investing in the AA, TSP. We are investing in the CRA platform. And we're also kind of continuing to make enhancements from a payment’s platform perspective. And AI F, we are launching new products. So what we had indicated was in the last year that the investments that we are making, and we do not kind of capitalize or amortize, we kind of take most of it to the P&L. On a quarter-on-quarter basis, our spend was projected to be INR3 crores or INR4 crores. So for the current year for all these initiatives put together, we have spent more than INR5 crores, okay? What has changed is the top line growth. So what used to be very minimal, less than a very small revenue component from AA, TSP, is now almost tracking to INR70 lakhs per quarter. What is happening from MF Central perspective is tracking to over INR60 lakhs to INR70 lakhs per quarter. So things like that -- our AIF growing 21%. A lot of it is because of the new ra mp-up that's happening on the products. So from a cost perspective, I don't think it's very different from what it was in earlier quarters. We continue to spend around INR5 crores, INR6 crores on these platforms that we are building out. But the revenue ha s crept up, which means that the profitability from a non-MF perspective, considering it's not a homogeneous bucket but just from an ease of understand perspective, if you take the bucket non-MF business, the profitability has crept up, and it will be in the high single digits -- high double digits -- less than teens. So we'll be around 10 percentage to 15 percentage of the bucket profitability, which is higher than what it was in earlier quarters. And as we get more and more revenue from a top line perspective, this to kind of get closer to the profitability. That's basically the understanding that we have. Whether it will happen in 2 quarters, 3 quarters, 4 quarters, it's how fast the revenue will ramp up, but that's the trajectory that we are foreseeing. On the KRA perspective, Anuj?

Yes, sure. So when you look at the KRA business, think of it as its the entire capital markets. In the capital markets, the large participants or brokerages and depositories, who you know that they add customers at a pace which is significantly ahead of what the mutual funds add, new customers add. Historically, we had rooted this business and designed it to serve CAM Service mutual funds. So a subset of the total. In the last 1.5 years, especially after we brought in Navi as a customer, we have now been going after the entire set of mutual funds, but also large brokerages and large fintech’s, some of these fintech’s are selling mutual funds, a lot of them are just registered brokers. So we have expanded the game to, let's say, the playing arena is 3x or 4x of what it used to be. And within the brokerage business, as you know, there are significant lumps, there are 5 or 6 entities which are very large. And then there is a medium size set of entities and there's a long tail. So as you go after these, and you just can't go after these through a sales effort because your product and your overall servicing turnaround times, quality of onboarding, time taken, etcetera, has to be world-class. We have built all of that, which is why we're seeing gain in share. Now are we going to become the number one very quickly? The answer is no, because it takes a period of time. The delta between the number one and number two today is significant. There is an incumbent number one. But what I can certainly assure you on is that there is not a flash in the pan performance. We've grown revenue 100% on the back of onboarding new PANs. When these investor PANs are reused either in the MF market or to -- for brokerages of opening demat accounts, that is really revenue accretive. So we are doing the right foundational things for the business. This year, the revenue growth is one indication. But my expectation is that we will continue to see this sustained in the same manner. You will see the gap lessening between the leader and -- when do we scale up to really challenge the leader, etcetera, that may take some time. But I think the initial metrics of onboarding high potential customers, expanding the number of PANs in our armoury and being able to sell them to reflect on revenue, I think those are great momentum causing events which have happened in the last 4 to 5 quarters.

Got it. Just a quick follow -up on one of the first question on investments. So on the non -MF side, I understand you are spending INR5 crores to INR6 crores additionally for some of these initiatives that listed. Now going forward, should we continue to see this these new investments and new initiatives and spend them in the next year?

If I may ask, can you just repeat the question? And because the -- I was not able to read you fully because the voice was not very clear. Is your question on yields? Or if you can please repeat it for us?

Yes, yes. So on the -- just this is a follow-up on the first question. So on the investment, so you said INR5 crores, INR6 crores towards new initiatives. Just wanted to understand how should we think of it going forward? Should it continue at this level? And what would be those initiatives that you would be spending on this INR5 crores, INR6 crores? And on the MF side, if you could list how our thinking about the investment work to be some of the things that you would be investing in the MF side? That would my question.

So what we have kind of said consistently and will continue following is that the investment amount would not go down -- while this is a journey, this is not -- we've not yet reached the destination in terms of where we want to be in terms of the product. So basically, we will continue to invest in new products in AIF. We already have rolled out the onboarding platform. We are doing the wealth track and we are doing the fund accounting platform. Similarly, from other businesses, the CRA platform will get further embellished. We are doing various journeys on that. We will get -- we have started the POP; we will get the government and other schemes and flavors into it. And from AA, TSP, several use cases are emerging. We are re-architecting a lot of these things. So the investments will not slow down. We will continue to invest this money in the platform that we are speaking about and we will see the beneficial impact in terms of ramp -up in the revenue. But you should assume that the same amount will continue to get invested on a quarter- on-quarter basis, adjusted for obviously some inflation in salary costs as we go forward. On the second question of investments in MF, and what we are doing?

So like Ram said, you can't do well in the marketplace until you build cutting-edge products and until you've taken them to market. So sales and product development. and some degree of just PR spreading the news around are just natural investments. We've said in the past, non-MF, that will be in the range of INR15 crores to INR20 crores a year, which I think continues. The point that Ram has made is that against that, there used to be small offsetting revenue, as increasingly the offsetting revenue increases because those markets are growing. You've seen that in KRA, in AIF and in account aggregator definitely. We will see that offsetting revenues grow. And therefore, the quantum of the investment remains constant, but it becomes revenue accretive. On the mutual fund side, there is a significant amount of work that we continue to do to scale up and add leadership, which is, of course -- leadership and manpower. But from a risk, antifraud, cybersecurity, BCP, just the way we treat data and we are able to organize data and get analytics and insight from the m. Those are standard, I would say, now you can count them as run rate investments inside the P&L, they continue to happen all the time. The sophistication that we need, let's say, from a security perspective continues to scale up in this world where you have to guard your perimeter very effectively and make sure there is no intrusion. So that will continue. But inside the P&L . I don't think you should read it as a separate line, which is kind of asynchronous to the growth of the business but is synchronous to the growth of business and will continue. Did that answer your question?

I think he's disconnected. We'll move on to the next question. Next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead, sir.

My question is just if you can give an indicative number. Since today, we are at EBITDA margin of 44.7%. If I want to split the EBITDA margin of MF and non -MF, how it is? And as Anuj highlighted, if the growth starts picking up in the non-MF business, then how you see the overall EBITDA margins to play out from the current levels? Or we see -- or what the numbers what you are looking at are like peak numbers, significant expansion you don't expect to happen? Just some outlook on that. And second question is largely on non-MF revenue. If you look at AIF business or CAMSPay business, it seems to be plateauing on sequential basis -- around INR74 million, INR75 million, and even CAMSPay. Just wanted to understand how to see these numbers to pan out, though on year-on-year basis, this looks healthy, but on a sequential basis, it seems to be holding up at these numbers. Just if you can give a little better outlook on these businesses will be helpful. And lastly, on fund accounting, I think our competitor is a li ttle aggressive on that particular piece. So if you can speak a little more on fund accounting as a new source of revenue, how you want to build this, it will be great?

Got it. So I'll answer the question on margin first, Sanketh. I think there are three questions that you asked, I'll just take the margins one first. So yes, we have seen a creep up in our non -MF margins what used to be -- even as a single bucket, and I would like to clarify again, they are not a homogeneous business or a unit. But for the purpose of ease of understanding, suppose we kind of club them under a single bucket and say it's non -MF bucket , our margins now on an EBITDA perspective are less than 15 percentage, right? What used to be a single-digit number has now kind of gone up to close to 15 percentage. And so the MF is kind of much more than the 44% that you're saying . Mathematically that's when your average is 44.8 percentage. Now going forward with trajectory, again -- this is again consistently what we've been saying for the last few quarters is that we will get the margins of the non -MF business creeping up as and when the revenue starts ramping up. Whether it happens rapidly over one or two quarters or over four, five quarters is what the market will tell us. But our trajectory of the non-MF margins, given that the spend is going to be plateauing and the revenue is going to be increasing, we expect that they will get 10 towards the 25 percentage in the next few quarters, for sure, right? There is going to be no dilu tion in margins as such from a pay perspective because of some investments, AIF margins could come down a little. But REP, once the Bima Central starts and some revenue starts kicking in and the other AA /TSP businesses, and the Sterling Software external businesses could actually give us an incremental 10 percentage increase in margins as we go forward. So that's the expectation. And obviously, I would just like to caution you with one thing, which is that the April quarter has always traditionally been the quarter in which we have had a close 2.5% increase in cost because of the annual appraisal. Now whether that is 2% or 3% or 2.5% and when that will happen? It's obviously a decision to be taken when you're closer to April. But the long -term trend suggests better increment on quarter 1. This is across the industry, it's not obviously unique to CAMS, is going to be around 2.5 percentage. So keeping that in mind, I would not kind of predict that our operating EBITDA will go to 49, 50 percentage. But what we are confident of doing is see this creep up in the EBITDA, and we keep let’s say the salary increments for a moment to see this EBITDA creep up by what we are assume is 20, 30 basis points over the next few quarters for sure. So that's the expe ctation. And we will see . We obviously hope and think that the revenue ramps up further, we will see a further ramp up in EBITDA. But I would still not suggest that we will be close to 50 percentage any time soon.

Yes. But now...

So basically my simple point is that -- means if I include even the annual presence in FY'25, then you're saying that current margins can potentially be at least , if 20, 50 basis point improvement in the third quarter, then we can see probably a 1% better margin than what we can expect in FY'24 is what I wanted to just check?

So historically, Sanketh, you've seen that operating EBITDA has grown by about 1% a year. That is irrespective of the puts and takes, whether we've made investments, whether revenue has grown or not grown at the same pace. So just extrapolating the past into the future, you know what to expect, right, with what you said 30 basis points i n the quarter and the 30 basis points repeat itself in all the four quarters. I think the only point Ram was saying is, in the first quarter, always tough to repeat the act. But we are at it and expecting about a 1% increase in the year just from a histor ical perspective is just par for the course. It’s happened for the last four, five years, likely can happen in the next year too. On CAMSPay and AIF, I think the formative metric you should look at is what are the pace we are winning at? Are we able to hold our prices? And are we introducing new products into the market? Because if you're doing these three or four things consistently in any marketplace, and then AIF you know that we come from a place of leadership, then it is not tough to expand revenue. You can always have a quarter which may not look the most stratospheric. But I would just encourage you to look at the numbers that we've shared. We said that four of the non-MF businesses grew over 20%. Alternatives on a large base at about 21%, pay even higher. So a narrow comparison, just in terms of overall growth I think is a good number to look at. We've shown you that the AIF business won almost 32 new clients. Look at the scale, our digital onboarding now has over 114 customers. And these are all revenue yielding contracts. Of course, revenue per sale isn't -- it's in line with what it used to in the past. So I'm quite confident that we will continue delivering the growth numbers that we have spoken about in the past for non-MF. Non-MF is a lump, we want to keep it over 20%. And from what I see coming, I think there is si gnificant confidence that, that will continue happening. On fund accounting, today, we service almost 70 to 80 unique consumers from a fund accounting perspective. Earlier, this was done in a certain way. Three quarters back, we decided to bring in the Multifonds platform, which is now going into production. And about three or four of our clients are going to migrate on that. So again, very confident that we have the right offering, the right go-to-market strategy and the right teams to continue scaling this. That is how I would characterize fund accounting. I'm personally very excited with the alternatives business, both what the CAMS team is doing and what the Fintuple team does. And collectively between them, we are quite positive about the acceptance of the products in the marketplace and how we would scale?

Just one thing, Sanketh, if I may just add. I think from an AIF perspective, the quarter-on-quarter growth is not bad. It's I think upwards of 10%, if I'm not mistaken. So I think the foundationmetrics, as Anuj said is -- number is also decent from a quarter-on-quarter growth of AIF.

Got it. And last one, given this Multifonds platform, I'm believing it is built completely in-house. So if you try to cross-sell to more AIF or other funds, then do you expect the revenue realization from the existing funds given the cross-sell opportunity, I believe you are largely in TA, transfer agency, it's RTA business in AIF. Now fund accounting, do you see this will play out much better than what we are anticipating or the run rate could be a little better because your ability to cross-sell?

So cross-selling was always happening. Like I said, we have about 80 unique consuming entities, which were buying fund accounting. The gap in the offering was that we did not have multicurrency. So think of someone who's trying to redomicile themselves fro m an overseas location into, let's say, GIFT city, etcetera. We did not have multicurrency reporting, etcetera. Multifonds, therefore, closes out that gap. So it is a niche. It is a part of the overall fund accounting offering. Will it create revenue scale of its own? The answer is yes. Will it make us more scalable? The answer is yes. But from a base perspective, that business will continue. And in domestic, pure single currency asset -- it will continue the way it has continued.

Perfect. And this largely will be keeping to AIF, right? Or you want to expand this platform beyond AIF?

Yes. Right now, I think one thing at a time. You know our approach, right? We don't try to spill into 100 places at the same time, one thing at a tim e. We want to make it a success. Have a number of market customers talking good things about us. And then if you're thinking of pension and MF, etcetera, it's a natural sequel, but we just want to get it first right in the base among the AIF and then move forward.

Perfect, Anuj. Thanks for the answer.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Abhijeet Sakhare from Kotak Securities. Please go-ahead sir.

Good morning everyone. My first question is, coming back to the non -MF businesses. Just putting all of them together, how would you kind of characterize the recurring or annuity nature of revenues versus something that is driven by volumes or transactions, if you can kind of give us some sense, broad sense on that piece of the business?

So if you are asking whether there is a connected to sale or recurring sale component? I would say some of thing’s businesses which are more project based, you win a 6-month or a 12-month analytic outsourcing contract, will perhaps characterize for that. But I would say that that's under 10%. If you want to see the annuity character, KRA is the best example, where once I have, let's say, a base of 2 crores PANs, these individuals can go and open accounts anywhere. But the exchange of the PAN information of the KYC information that I store is revenue accretive. So theoretically, even if I stop selling for a day or a month, that revenue continues. Similarly, if you see CAMSRep and you see the insurance policies that we have in the base. They continue to be revenue accretive because we continue charging an AMC, even if theoretically, I were to stop selling for some time. So a similar trajectory goes through in payments, for example, if I have, let's say, a few crore SIPs in the base, so the SIPs have to be triggered every month or every week. If I theoretically stop selling to new clients or stop downloading new SIPs, that remains in the base. So the project base, non -annuity, self-sell revenue, which I would characterize it as not more than 10% to 15%. The rest of it is base revenue once you bought a logo win and once you master this basic metrics. Yes, most of it is not AUM related. Most of it will be transaction related. But those transactions are recurring in nature and the prices are fixed, that I see it as annuity revenue.

Got it. That's helpful. Secondly, I think Ram mentioned a couple of times on the account aggregator business, something like a reworking of the pla tform. So if you could talk a little more about it because I thought -- I mean, this was anyways sort of a fresh investment that has happened in the past couple of years. So from a monetization point of view or from a revenue accrual margin point of view, do we see this platform sort of the monetization getting right shifted because of whatever investments that are happening?

So Abhijeet, let me clarify. So what I meant was with the several use cases and onboarding of various customers, we're just kind of making changes in the platform, which will make it easier to onboard new customers. And there'll, obviously, be a rationalization, of course, as we go along in terms of scalability, in terms of capability. So it's not as we are taking and trashing the platform and building a new platform. I think it's more kind of an enhancement that we do and make it more efficient to keep onboarding or adding. For us currently to take a customer go -live is when things start getting interesting. Sign-ups are okay but go-live is when we start getting revenue. So this entire go-live process with all the disparate IT systems of so many people would require some amount of reorientation from a platform perspective. That's what I was mentioning. And it was in the co ntext of why further investments would be made in these? I think that was the question. So in that context, I was saying that this could be what we are doing. However, we don't intend trashing the platform, building a new platform and obviously, it's a clo ud-based scalable platform that we have, we continue to enhance that platform. And there is no -- in fact, we are at a very interesting place from a monetization perspective. The rates have sort of stable, the sign-ups are happened and now the go-live is happening from various customers, use cases are evolving. So there's not as such change in the model of monetization or the trajectory that we foresee for monetization. We have grown 100% quarter - on-quarter. And there's nothing that prevents us from repeating the tweak in the next few quarters. So it's in a good shape now. The usual investments will continue to happen in tweaking the platform and making more efficient for onboarding.

Got it. That's helpful. One couple of again, smaller data point questions, sir. Would you have the period-end AUM handy by any chance, overall and equity?

Oh, period end. So can I just refer that and get back to you, period-end AUM?

Yes, yes. Not a problem.

It was on an increasing trajectory, if your question is it going to sustain, I think emphythe numbers will show that. The average AUM was much less than the period closing AUM, if that's your question. But I'll get back with the exact number.

No problem. No problem. And then one more, again, sort of a clarification. When I look at the non-MF revenue breakup, for AIF, particularly, the -- the 21% number seems to be higher than what we get when calculating the number using the mix that you have disclosed. I think the calculated number seems to be somewhere around 14%, 15%. So are we missing something?

So I'll just clarify. So from our perspective, the segment is AIF. We will probably make the change in the presentation. So I feel people text service in the same segment. So that put together, you see, 21% that we are talking about.

Understood. Understood. And then last one is that under insurance Repository, the EIA piece that you mentioned, that -- that's not -- that doesn't make money, right? It's the other piece, which is where you make revenues on a per policy basis, right?

So I'll just take a minute. Yes, on a margin basis, I think the entire insurance repository business is close to breakeven. It's not making money. On the insurance repository, which is your EIA account and the per policy billing that we do, it's not at a critical stage where it's starting to make money. That is accurate. The other business which we have in the -- outsourcing business, which is a more pure outsourcing kind of a play where we do some policy servicing, persistency, calling, feet on street, etcetera, and implant of resources. So that's the thing that is making a small margin. But the AIF segment, which is the AMC for the policies that we have, the policy conversion charges that we have and the transaction charges that we have, currently is not making money. And that's why we're looking to the Bima Central platform, which should -- already started integration with a couple of -- 3 of the insurers and one has gone live. By April 1 when it's kind of a little more rounded in terms of an offering and transactions start flowing in, we hope to kind of see breakeven and start making money from the first quarter of next year.

Ok, thanks a lot.

Okay. So I have 2 questions. One is about -- 1 question and 1 summation, actually. So the question is about EIA business and your alternatives business. So if you can share with us what is the total addressable market that we are trying to handle in terms of 2 years down the line, 3 years down only, it would be very helpful in valuing this business? That's one. And secondly, in terms of solution, I have -- that now that CAMS have a lot of businesses. If you can share data points around these businesses in the PowerPoint itself in the presentation that you have, wherein the profitability of the different businesses and the operating drivers are also placed, it would be very helpful in terms of consist ency of the information that is coming from your team, and we been able to look up quarter-to-quarter, year-to-year with focus.

Okay. So from an EIA perspective, think of it that you've seen in the past some statements made by regulators of there being a compulsory demat regime potentially to be ushered into insurance. That is when the entire effect of EIA and electronic policies will kind of play out. That count of policies in the country is close to INR55 crores, which means if you want to look at the base of business, which at one time could accrue to insurance repositories, that's about 55 crores policies. What accrues to them today is about INR3 crores. So that's about 5% of potential, which means the balance 95% has not been realized. Als o the fact that because it has not become as popular as it could have and the level of integration with insurance companies, etcetera, is what it is, one’s ability to transact, which is to do either select a new policy or to make a claim, or to pay premiums or to look at a single screen and look at all your maturity values, etcetera, it isn't where it is, and that is why the transaction revenue is also not kicked in. So that market is potentially a 15x to 20x market compared to what you're seeing today, t aken with pinch a salt, that as a normal consumer movement, it has been going at a certain pace, making it mandatory at the regulatory industry level, will have a completely different impact. When will it happen? We can all collectively guess. So that's one. AIF on the other side, have been significantly embracing outsourcing. You will see that from a total registered count perspective, there are almost 1,000 AIFs in the country, everybody may not have launched. We service about 200 of them. A lot of them may have outsourced or may have bought outsourcing services only for onboarding and TA kind of services. Now of course, you know that demat has become mandatory. So that and then fund accounting and other fund administration services, I would still say tha t the non -outsourced part is still quite large, it is sitting there. Most of the new funds that get launched are getting launched in a captive manner, which means that they are priced and not coming to us, still they scale to, let's say, beyond 100 invest ors or beyond a critical mark. So that, again, from an outsource versus non -outsource revenue perspective, you can say that we've perhaps touched less than 50% what is out there. Most of the large AIFs, of course, have outsourced. So they are customers, but there is a significant number, several hundreds of them, which can potentially become clients over the coming years. That's fairly the addressable market for you.

Okay. great. Thank you so much. And regarding my suggestion on giving infor mation in a tabular format for different businesses in the PowerPoint. That will be helpful.

So, yes, thanks for the suggestion. So we will give a tabular format of the revenue. And the other part of it, we will definitely have a look at it, sir, at the end of this quarter. Yes.

Yes, okay. Thank you so much and wish you all good success.

Thank you.

Thank you. That was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ramcharan for closing comments.

Yes. Thanks, Tushar, and thank you for the participation and continued interest in CAMS. We appreciate your time spent on this. And for any clarification, please reach out to our IR agency, Orient Capital, or Anish Sawlani, and we'll be happy to answer any questions that you may have. Once again, thanks for your time.

On behalf of Computer Age Management Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

Thank you.