The first question is from the line of Karan Uppal from PhillipCapital India.
FY2025 Q4
A couple of questions on the aerospace vertical. So one of our large customers in aerospace has given a profit warning due to the impact of tariffs and also U.S. Airlines last month have given profit warnings due to the weak travel demand. So how is it impacting the aerospace, especially on the MRO side? That's first question.
I think that's a very good question. I think right now, we're not seeing any significant impact on the aerospace side. I think we will start to see some of that as we go forward. But at least as we see because a lot of the work that we do that relates to MRO is based on flying hours. The flying hours have not really decreased very significantly. So in that sense, the impact is quite minimal at the moment.
Okay. Secondly, on the green hydrogen deal, if you can comment what is the size of the deal and whether it will move the needle for the sustainability vertical? And has it already ramped up? Or is it expected to ramp up in the next couple of quarters?
I think we haven't really announced the size of the deal, but I'll say it is meaningful. It does have an impact on the energy vertical. I'll just -- also, if I may just clarify to what Sukamal said. The sustainability vertical going forward, we will speak about it in 3 pieces, which is minerals and mining, energy and utilities and geospatial because that's the more meaningful way of looking at that business. But anyway, with that caveat, it will be significant for the energy business, and the ramp-up is in the process of happening. And we're already seeing some -- we're seeing the first of the revenues that we'll continue to see that over the quarters. But it is a meaningful deal for the overall business, not just for energy.
So in terms of has it modified our pipeline or changed our pipeline, the answer would be no . Because stress also creates an opportunity to create a pipeline of a different nature. But has it caused or created a pause in decision making? The answer is yes.
The next question is from the line of Sandeep Shah from Equirus.
Congratulations, Sukamal. The first question to you, sir, I think Cyient always had a very great quality of clients as well as good capability, but somehow the growth volatility on an organic basis Y-o-Y has not been so great, and there are issues in terms of predictability of the growth at the start of the year and what we deliver at the end of the year. So how do you see this situation? And what are the corrective steps you are looking to repair this side of the predictability?
Sure. Thanks for the question. I think, yes, there is, as I mentioned in my commentary also, that there is some near-term work to be done with regards to execution. And this is definitely one of those areas of focus. I think it's much more difficult to bui ld client base and competency and easier, I'm not saying it's easy to build a business rhythm with both from a sales and delivery perspective. So it is something which we will be working on together to make sure that given the current environment, irrespective of where the number goes, that we are able to provide that stability and predictability in terms of what our business outlook looks like. So to answer your question, it is an area of work that has been identified and work is in progress as we speak.
Okay. So you are looking to restructure some of the leadership team? Or do you believe there won't be major ove rhaul in terms of the leadership? It will be more to do with our increased focus on execution at the periodic review . In terms of the overhaul and restructuring . Sir, are you expecting some change in leadership or churning our portfolio needs to happen? Or it's more an execution focus without any major overhaul in the growth strategy ahead?
I think first and foremost, it's our focus on execution. I would reserve comment at this point in time about any future changes that we may have to do. But at the same time, there are areas of focus that we need to bring in, which the organization doesn't have, if I may call out one of them, like partnerships and ecosystem. So there will be leadership brought in -- new leadership brought in to address some of these areas which needs attention. But in terms of -- right now, what we are focusing on is to focus on execution. And in parallel, we are working on making sure that we can define our strategic road map which we can work on for the next 2 to 3 years once it's in place.
Okay. And Krishna, sir, just a follow -up in terms of your opening remarks, you called out that the month of March has been a negative surprise. So is it fair to assume it will have a full quarter impact in the first quarter and even first quarter, we could be flat or declining on a Q-on-Q. And in that scenario, the full year positive growth or a flattish growth could be a daunting task. Is it the right way of looking at it?
So I think in all fairness, there will be some of that impact that will be felt in Q1. I think, again, I just want to reiterate that it's not something that's very significant and a sustained impact. I think it was really a few projects that got pulled out or got put on hold to start execution etc. So I'd say there will be an impact on Q1. Again, I will -- if you pardon me, I will again reiterate that it's not a major or a massive impact. It is an impact. But having said that, I think to the point earlier also, we just want to be cautious on how we look at the year ahead. So I don't want to comment on the whole year at the moment, and that's why -- I think in all fairness, I should give Sukamal or we should give Sukamal the time to get a good grip on not just the business but also how we do forecasting and how we do budgets in the business. So in that context, I'd say -- I just want to say, yes, there will be an impact in Q1, but not a significant or a crisis level impact for sure. There will be a little bit of an impact. But from a year perspective, I would rather not comment because I would rather like that Sukamal gets his handle on the operations. And again, no secret, our ability to forecast in the last year or so has been a bit of a challenge. So I don't want to forecast when I'm not confident that we've overcome that forecasting challenge. But from a business perspective, if I look at what our clien ts are telling us, if I look at our pipeline, if I look at the confidence of the sales deal s, I'm not overly worried on how the year will pan out.
Okay. And just a follow-up. Can you give some commentary segment-wise or industry-wise in terms of DET demand entering FY26 because tariffs may lead to a supply chain disruption in many of your verticals where you focus. So will it lead to delay in decisio n-making in many of the sectors? So can you brief in terms of the growth outlook across most of your industry segment? And second, on margin, Prabhakar, sir, just wanted to understand, last time you were seeing by Q4 of FY26, we can reach bac k to close to 16% kind of a margin, which we want to sustain. Whether that assumption still remains true? Or it has been postponed further because of the macroeconomic issues?
So I'll take the first part, which is in terms of subsegment -wise momentum. We definitely have some of the areas which has grown healthily in th e last year. I'll call out health care as one of them. So definitely, it's an area where we have seen momentum. We have seen growth in some of the other segments as well like automotive, like Krishna mentioned some time back. So in terms of going into FY 26, we have a few segments which are coming in with momentum. However, I would like to add that this is a time where there is a degree of uncertainty. And will it play out exactly the same way in terms of how we close FY25 into FY26. While we are reasonably confident, but we cannot say for sure. It will need some work and some more time for us to be able to talk specifically about segments and their growth. Prabhakar?
See, on the question of margin, three things I'll say. The first is part of my repetition of what I said, the cost management framework that we had was very effective for us in FY25 and also in FY24, as you know. The second thing I'll say is that we intend to continue with wage hikes to our colleagues and associates, which is what we will do in F Y26. The third thing I'll say is that we'll be a lot more prudent and focused on investments we will make in the current year towards outcomes. Now what these three things will mean for us in FY26 in the context of how Q4 has played out, is this that previously, we said that we will touch 16% sometime in the next 12 months. That's what we said in January. But we may have to recalibrate this to touching and even staying steady at 15% over the next 24 months. This is the current outlook, but as we navigate the following quarters, we will see what further updates and upgrades we can make to the margin trajectory.
So is it fair to assume now we are looking at 15% as a margin target over the next 24 months versus 16% earlier?
All we are saying is that these three things, we will manage the cost, the wage hikes and the investments. And we will look at a 24 months' time frame to stabilize the margin trajectory, at a number that is appropriate for the growth that we will deliver.
The next question is from the line of Moez Chandani from Ambit Capital.
So I wanted to discuss on the connectivity and the new growth areas because both of them have seen a sharp decline this quarter. So was that also just largely the macro impact in the latter part of the quarter? Or was there something that you saw throughou t the entirety of Q4? And has there been any incremental improvement here in the first 3-4 weeks of the new quarter?
Okay. So I think in terms of connectivity and new growth areas, yes, I think we saw broad-based uncertainty in the month of March. So there is an impact, for sure. In terms of the first 3-4 weeks, it is spotty at this point in time to call out specific trends. And that is one of the reasons I said earlier, we're going to stop guidance for the time being. So I think the way we should think about is that what Krishna already mentioned that there are challenges which are there in sp ots and tactical, which does impact numbers. And in an environment where demand is there, but it's not robust demand. Obviously, it's having impact on a quarter-on-quarter basis.
Sure. Understood.
Let me also add to this to what Sukumal said. That of the 6 large deals we won in Q4, two were from aerospace and two were in communications.
Sure. Understood. And then I also see a very strong cash balance right now, which is close to about INR1,300 crores. So what are the plans for this? Is this largely for the semiconductor business? Or are there any other plans that you also have with this cash balance and also with very strong cash generation, I would think you would continue adding to this cash balance in the near future as well?
So I'd say that there are two elements to it. One is the -- of course, we want to make sure that we continue the healthy cash generation that's been even in some difficult times in the past. We've always generated cash in the business, and we will continue to focus on that. So to your point, yes, we will -- what I see that the cash piece will continue to be quite strong. And as you know, we also did a lot of work in terms of reducing our capex spend, which at one point is almost 3% of our revenue. We will continue to generate good, strong cash. There's two elements. One, of course, is on the usage of cash. One, of course, is the dividend that we pay out and we understand there's an obligation on our pay back to the shareholders, and that has happened. The Board also has taken a decision to review the dividend policy to make sure that we are investing and have enough cash available to support growth, which we'll come back with when that happens. But more importantly, I'll say, 1 is the semiconductor business. And 2 is, I think at least in the last 6 to 8 weeks in a lot of conversations with Sukamal, I feel very confident that we now have a good handle on what are the elements of our portfolio that have to be enhanced and where an inorganic play could come in to enhance these elements of our portfolio. As you know, our customers respect us for the capability that we've built in engineering, in the domain and so on and so forth. Yes, there are some gaps in terms of our competence on technology, especially some of the emerging technologies. So we will continue to look at ways to enhance our portfolio using M&A and the use of the cash will also be for that. Of course, it's -- before a question on M&A, I'll just say as with M&A, as you know, it's too early to talk about any specifics and the only right time to talk about a specific M&A is when it happens. But I will just say that we are very, very focused on. Again, it's a great opportunity to enhance our portfolio and plug in some gaps that we have in our portfolio, which we will be looking for. And of course, the semiconductor business will also require cash. And like I said, we're seeing some very, very stro ng inbound interest from customers. So we'll also -- we'll also put that to good use.
Got it. And Sukamal also mentioned something about increasing your focus on GCCs. So can I get a sense or a little more details in terms of what we're doing in terms of working with the GCCs? And what's the revenue and margin profile of some of these projects that we're doing?
Sure. That's a very good question. I think first and foremost, we now have a local leader based out of India, focused on GCC. Somebody who comes with established credentials in the market working with GCCs for a period of time and which extends to a couple of decades. So somebody who understands the market very well, who understands the needs of the market very well. And we have aligned many of our accounts, which were largely GCC-centric to his business unit and making sure that it operat es as an independent business unit, given that if not 100%, close to 100% of the revenues are actually being generated from the GCCs and decision -making in the GCCs. In terms of margin, when it comes to our EBIT, and we would ensure that the way we are operating and managing this business, that our EBIT does not get diluted because of this. There might be different mechanisms in terms of how we price and hence, what gr oss margin we generate. But we definitely will work towards making sure that the overheads that we invest into this business is definitely significantly lower than the overheads we have to do in terms of investment from a geography -based business. So we will ensure that EBIT is not diluted from this business.
The next question is from the line of Sulabh Govila from Morgan Stanley.
My first question is more of a clarification. So Krishna, I just wanted to check. Maybe I could not hear it correctly. But in the presentation, we mentioned that we expect the challenges or the uncertainties to last at least through the first half of FY26. So while in the comments that were made in the opening remarks, I heard that it is only 1Q. So I just wanted to check what should we consider?
I think, yes, it's just prudent to start with 1Q. I think it's too early right now. As you know, with uncertainties, the nature of uncertainty, is that it's hard to predict. So I'd say in 1Q, we do have some challenges and uncertainties. But again, nothing to the level that we should be very concerned about. Yes, the world is what it is and we just need to work through. So I'd say we'll start with -- I would imagine that through the quarter, things will stay at least from a macro perspective, from a company perspective, I'm not too worried about. So I'd say it's more a Q1 issue to start with. If that continues, we'll come back and let you know.
Okay. Okay. Understood. And the second is that this process of stopping the guidance, I just wanted to get clarity. Is this more temporary in nature? Or it's going to be a permanent phenomenon from here on? And if it's temporary, then how much time should we expect that process to get back?
So the guidance stopping we are doing is temporary. We will come back as to when we are going to release that guidance.
If I may just comment on that from a Board perspective, I think the Board wanted to make sure that Sukamal has enough time before he can really comment and more than comment, I'd say, commit on the business. I think in all fairness, we just need a little b it of time to build that stability on how Sukumal is able to understand and articulate the nuances of our business. Again, we're coming off of a place where we did not have the greatest -- or we do not have the greatest track record in terms of giving guidance. Therefore, we thought it was best -- or the Board, sorry, I'd say this was something that the Board also strongly recommended to us, to Sukamal, Prabhakar and me. So I think we just want to step back, so Sukamal gets a complete handle. So we can be a lot more sharp and focused on the guidance or the range.
Understood. Very clear. And then when I look at the numbers for Q4, the segmental performance, both from a vertical standpoint and geography. While from a vertical standpoint, we've degrown in most of the verticals, except sustainability. From a geographic al standpoint, most of the decline has come in from Asia. So just trying to understand what are the nuances here. Just some clarity there would be very helpful.
Sulabh, structurally, what you say is right. The impact was felt of the macro across all geographies. We were expecting to grow a lot more in North America than what you've seen in the current numbers. That's how it played out. Some part of this change in APAC was structural to that particular quarter. But otherwise, the growth in North America was muted compared to what we thought it could be.
Understood. Understood. And if I could also check from a top client profile perspective, top 5 clients, particularly, are you seeing any sort of client -specific issue that you would want to highlight at this point in time?
Sulabh, not at this point in time. Actually, if any, -- the top 5 customers grew by 4.5% year-on- year for us, and the top 10 clients grew by about 9% year-on-year for us. So if any, this represents a very strong platform for us like Krishna spoke before an d Sukamal later, but the client confidence, especially in top clients remain the same way it is in what we do for them and what they expect us to do in future.
So there's -- currently, there is no impact on top 5 clients that you expect in the coming quarters?
The impact was broad -based across the spectrum, but all I'm saying is on a full year basis, we still had a strong growth in top 5 and top 10 clients for last year.
And I think just add to that, I don't see that there's any structural change because I think, especially in the last 6 weeks, we spoke to all of the top 5 as a part of introducing Sukumal. And I think it's quite clear that there isn't a structural change. I think what has happened is in May with all the confusion, a lot of things got side railed or side-tracked. But I think in general, at least I feel quite confident having that conversation along with Sukamal that we are in a very strong place with all the 5.
And to further quantify that, of the 6 large deals we have won 3 came from our top 10 clients in Q4.
The next question is from the line of Shradha from Asian Markets Securities.
You indicated that 1Q would be soft, but generally, we see seasonality of weakness in sustainability because of holiday in Europe. So do you expect that seasonality to play out in this year as well? And given that, do you expect 2Q to be equally weak as versus 1Q?
Yes. So I think it's too early to talk about Q2. But you are right that there is a European holiday which plays into our numbers for Q2. And we have to work now to make sure that we work on mitigating it to the extent possible. So I would say that let's st ay with the commentary that Krishna has already mentioned about Q1. And given the decision we have taken on stopping guidance, I think we probably should leave it where we have left -- I mean, mentioned so far in terms of our commentary.
Right, right. And on connectivity, I understand that macro has changed quite a bit in the last few weeks. But during 3Q earnings call, we had suggested that we expect connectivity to grow in the second half of '26 based on the order book that you had in ha nd and the execution of that was planned for second half? So do you expect any deferrals or delay in execution of those deals that have already been awarded to in communications vertical?
I think we don't see any major change in what our customers are looking at. I think the deals that have been awarded. Yes, there have been some timeline issues or timing issues. But in general, we see that the deals that have been awarded, et cetera, are continuing. I think we also see a good amount of fiber that will continue to be designed and rolled out at least for the next couple of years. So we might have a timing issue around there.
And to give some color, especially with regards to March as well as to an extent, Q1, we were renewing our contract with one of our major customers in connectivity, which has happened. And during that process, there was definitely some slowdown of business award -- new business being awarded. And I think we are over that now with the contract being signed in April.
And just if I heard it right, you mentioned that you are cutting down on the dividend payout. So any number that you would be looking at for the new dividend payout policy?
No, no. I just want to say for right now, we hold with the policy. I'll just -- the Board has -- will review that during the course of the year. Again, that will only happen in conjunction with our ability to invest and grow. We first need to also understand that side of the equation because like I mentioned earlier, I mean, one of the great things about our business is we are a very, very solid cash-generating business. So any adjustment, I'd say, as any adjustment that we will make to dividend will really be so that we can -- we see an opportunity immediately to invest that cash. Otherwise, we wouldn't do that. So my point is, the Board is very supportive of all initiatives, organic, inorganic. And the Board is also very cognizant that they will make available to us the capital to make the investments. But any adjustment to the dividend policy will only happen when those investments are made.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Krishna Bodanapu for closing comments.
Thank you very much. And ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being here this afternoon with us. I understand that today is a busy day, so I really greatly appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. As I said, while Q4 was a bit of a challenging quarter towards the end and of course, a tad lower than what we had initially anticipated. I just want to reiterate that the business continues to be very strong. I'm also very proud and happy and very, very e agerly anticipating Sukumal's role as the CEO of Cyient because as you've already heard from him . Sukumal has a great understanding of the business, has a great understanding of the technology business and the engineering business. But more importantly, I'm confident that Sukamal has a good understanding of some of the challenges that Cyient faces that need to be addressed. But more importantly, of the strength of the organization because we are still one of the largest engineering, one of the most highly regarded engineering and technology providers in the world, and that is because we deliver a great service to our customers. So I'm very confident that Sukumal will use that platform to significantly grow the business and significan tly accelerate not just the strategy but also the numbers. It will take a little bit of time. It's really an issue of just executing more diligently. So that means that the time is very short. We just need a little bit of time, but that's not a huge amount of time in the grand scheme of things. But I am confident where we are. And I'm also very confident that we will be back into a very strong growth mode in the coming quarters. So I just want to make sure that we commit -- or sorry that we communicate the confidence that the leadership team, I and the Board have in the business. So thank you very much for your support. Again, if there's any specific questions, we're happy to answer them later. But thank you, and we will speak again next quarter.
Thank you. On behalf of Cyient Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. This is a transcription and may contain transcription errors. The transcript has been edited for clarity. The Company takes no responsibility of such errors, although an effort has been made to ensure high level of accuracy