Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. The first question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain: from ICICI Securities.

I've got a couple of questions. First, a numerical question, let me finish that. On the other segment, the EBIT has fallen from INR25 Crores last quarter to around INR1 Crores this quarter. What has changed? Because revenue number hasn't changed much. Why there is such a sharp swing in the EBIT margin for the other segment?

So other segment last time consists of mining profit, which this quarter didn't took place. That was the reason of fall.

So what explains less change in revenue in that? So what is compensated...

So this quarter, we did not operate the mines. We're waiting for some licensing to happen. Post that, the mining operation will start. That was the reason.

Okay. But it is not showing up in revenue. That means something else has picked up...

Revenue, because the Birla Tyres revenue has gone up. Last quarter, if you see the Birla quarter revenue, revenue was significantly low. And with the ramping up of capacity in Birla Tyres, the revenue is going up. So that's the reason you don't find change in reve nue, but you find change in the profitability.

Clear, clear. Now coming to the new capex that we have announced, which is the carbon nanotube and the super -speciality carbon black. In nanotube, what is an approach? This will address India market, global market? What is the key application? You did said energy and semiconductor, but whom are we competing here? And how have we benchmarked the product? Now that we are commercializing it, we would have done all that, right? So how should we see this segment? And what is the differential in the realization versus a speciality carbon black and the carbon nanotube? That's one. Number two, we got the super speciality carbon black. What really is this because carbon nanotube, I can still understand. But when we say super speciality carbon black, what really are we trying to do here? So these are the two on these questions.

Thank you, Sanjesh. So first of all, coming to carbon nanotube. Carbon nanotube is a unique product where graphene is rolled into seamless cylinder that forms carbon nanotube. So it's nothing but graphene, which we have developed through relentless R&D efforts of many, many years. If you look at the entire value chain -- entire supply chain platform globally, there are only a few companies in the world who are doing this. And we are the first in India. And if you look at the product, to make it very simple, it is 100x the strength of steel with the conductivity of the copper. That's the game changer. Strength of steel and conductivity of copper and very light material. So this opens the entire huge arena of applications, right, from lithium- ion batteries to semiconductors to conductive film sensors to industrial coatings, to lightweight high-strength material for aerospace and automotive, means every day, the usage is impr oving and increasing. So that places Himadri in a unique position because the in-house technology we have developed and now we are putting it into scale. So this is the first step with 200 metric tons. We'll stabilize the product, set up the facility, get customers in place globally. So today, the market is very less in India. It's a global play. So we'll be supplying to the global players. And this is a very high value-added product and with significant value over the existing products. Now coming to super speciality carbon black. So I have been talking about value -added products, the journey, and it's a journey. Every time you keep on working on it, you keep on developing and you go one step up the ladder. So we started with very low end of speciality carbon black, just marginal in terms of speciality carbon black. Then we are moving ahead. We are going up the ladder with the new speciality carbon black line coming up, we have moved up the ladder. Now the aspiration, so I've been always talking about high -value niche market for speciality carbon black, which is a very -- not a very, very huge market, but it's a very, very prime and tailor-made super speciality market, where the value addition is mul ti-fold of the existing speciality. So in terms of value addition, you cannot compare the two products. That's why you are seeing at only 6,000 metric tons, but the value addition will be very, very high. So this is the product we are targeting now. And we have given FY28 as when we'll start the capacity. And this will be a very big game changer for the company going into a very, very niche market, high value-add market with a very strong ROCE.

No, my question is that we just started a speciality plant. Why did we do that? We could have straight went into manufacturing the same, which is we are converting the old plant, right?

No, no, we are not converting the speciality plant. We are converting the commodity...

The rubber side of the...

Right, right. And speciality why we went -- see, you cannot leave one market and focus on one market. See, these players buy speciality, they buy super speciality. So you have to have the entire portfolio in your basket. It's not that I'll sell you only the best product, high -margin product, others you buy from others. That never works. So for that, you have to have the entire portfolio with us. Speciality is the stepping stone to go towards super speciality. That's why we have to strengthen our position, make us very strong in speciality, that gives the confidence to the customers that they have the ability. So if you're not doing a speciality or super speciality, first question is, first you do speciality, then talk about super speciality. That's it.

No, no. But I just want to understand like conductive grade, it helps in improving the conductivity in the material. What property does this super speciality adding in, say, engineering plastic and EV, what really characteristic is this adding there?

See, because of competitive nature, I don't want to disclose all these technical details on a con call. So we have clearly articulated which is application is this, and I don't want to go into technical details of the subject.

Got it. No, no, no, that's fair. That's fair enough. Second, what is the market size of, say, carbon nanotube globally and the super speciality?

So if you look at the carbon nanotube, it's evolving market. Today, it is around 30,000 metric tons, which is growing every year. And a lot of -- what is happening, this product is getting more and more applications and user industry. So it's a new product , new technology, which is working now. And over the years, you will find the uses multiplying, the growth will be phenomenal. So this is a growing industry, new age industry, advanced material industry. Coming to super speciality, the market is around 300,000 metric tons.

Okay. No, no, no. Super speciality is 300,000 metric tons? I thought speciality is even...

Speciality is very high. Speciality runs into 1 million, so more than 1 million. That's our normal market.

Okay. Got it, got it. Now coming to battery materials. So we are getting into anode LFP right now and then silicon probably soon. Now I want to understand LFP market, what is the size of the market today in China? How many players are there in this segment? And how are we approaching this segment?

So if you look at the LFP market, today, 100% global capacity of LFP rests in China and is mainly dominated by top 5 to 6 players in China. They are the leaders with 75% to 80% of the capacity. Globally, there is no other company manufacturing LFP as of now on a commercial basis. So entire capacity rests with China. And market, if you look at today, we are at 1.5 TWH, 1.6 TWH. And in that, you can say probably 50% is LFP. And if you look at 50% LFP, that brings you to 800 gigawatt hour. 800 gigawatt hour , that will consume around 1.6 million ton of LFP as of now. But with a growing market, it is supposed to grow to 6 -plus terawatt hour by 2035 and majority, 70% of the growth is coming in LFP. So looking forward, the demand for this product is going to be big.

Got it, got it. And what we are adding or aspiring to add 200,000, that's like we are talking of having a 10% market share of today's market, correct? That's how we are approaching it?

That's not the right way of looking at it because 200,000, we are projecting in next 5 to 6 years. So by that time, the market will definitely change from what it is today. So actually, we are targeting at 2% to 3%, which is hardly anything.

Got it. Got it. Now if I want to look at the same economics in anode because I think there are some other players in India also who have announced anode capacity. How are we different? Again, what is the demand in the world? What is the contribution of China?

So if you look at the anode chemistry, so unlike LFP, every lithium ion cell needs anode. In cathode material, there are different chemistries. There is NMC, CLO, LFP, various chemistries. But for anode, everyone needs anode. So on a macro basis, 1,600 gigawatts need 1.6 million tons of anode. So anodes are different types, synthetic anode and natural graphite anode. So if you look at 70% of the market is synthetic because of high capacity, stability, quality, sustainability, this product is there. What makes Himadri unique is that -- see, it's not that everyone is talking about lithium ion, so Himadri has also started talking about lithium ion. This has been our vision since last more than 10, 12 years. We have worked very hard on this to make it happen. Extensive amount has been invested in terms of research and development capabilities and innovation. We have spent -- if you look at the last year's balance sheet only INR125-plus Crores we have spent, 2.6% of our top line. Current year also, we are spending in the same fashion. Over the years, we have spent this money on R&D in different products. And we know the chemistry in and out. We have worked on it for years. We are the first company in the world to supply the precursor from pitch to the who's who of anode in China, like I don't want to name, any top 5 players in China before China could make coal tar -based precursors, we made it and we supplied to them. So we are very seasoned in this industry and strongly positioned and only company who is talking of anode material backward integrated. So we have our own raw material. In addition to that, we have flexibility of using other raw materials. So this brings Himadri in a unique platform. Other than that, we are working on natural graphite. We will also set up capacity for that. We will set up capacity of silicon carbon. This again brings Himadri into a unique position where we will meet the aspiring and need of our customers, not only thro ugh synthetic, but through natural silicon carbon. So I was talking about the strength and USP of Himadri we are into – going to set a plant for synthetic natural and silicon carbon that puts Himadri into unique positioning where we can supply hybrid material to our customers depending on their requirement. Sanjesh, I hope this answers your question.

Hello.

Yes Sanjesh.

Yes Sir. Can you hear me?

Yes I can hear you please.

I think they mute me because they were trying to connect you, but now you can hear me. Thank you. That's perfectly clear. So now we have started 200 met ric ton of pilot plant in last one quarter, what has been the response? Ho w many samples we have with us a nd what is the discussion with the client we are having? If you can give us some col or, that will be really helpful?

Definitely. So what happens, from the pilot plant, we were allowed to give sample A. There are four stages, sample A, B, C and D. So now we have supplied sample B to many customers globally and in India, to all the customers in India and many customers, OEMs and manufacturers globally. So once we have the response for sample B, then we go for sample C.

I'm trying to understand how long this approval process goes?

This process takes 1.5 years to 2 years.

So this entire process for us will take almost 1.5 to 2 years. So for us to get into?

No, we have already advanced the process. So for us, it will take comparative -- by the time we have our plant in operation, we'll have the approvals in place.

When are we looking that, what would be the potential time line? I know you haven't disclosed that?

Yes, that's the reason I cannot disclose.

That's the reason we have started sampling from our commercial gate 200 metric ton plant. So that brings us in the front foot for getting approvals.

Sorry to interrupt you, sir. You may rejoin the queue for a follow-up question. The next question is from the line of Deepak Poddar from Sapphire Capital.

Am I audible, Sir?

Yes, you are audible.

Yes. Just wanted to understand on the anode side, what's the capex amount?

So we have already spent INR120 Crores.

And how much more to spend here?

How much?

I mean how much more? I mean this INR120 Crores is the total amount for this...

There's no more capex we have announced now. Once we formulate our plan for a bigger capacity, we'll come up with public disclosure for the investment.

Okay. Okay. Got it. And LFP Phase 1, what's the timeline for commissioning?

Q3FY '27.

So that's only 2,000 metric tons, right? So I was talking about Phase 1, 40,000, yes.

That will be operational in FY '28.

So that will come in FY '28?

Right.

And for this INR40,000, we are spending around INR1,125 Crores, right?

Right, right.

And on this 5 capex that we are doing in CNT, SSCB, anode, LFP, cathode and carbazole and anthraquinone. So do we have any kind of understanding so what can be the revenue potential from each of the segment at optimum utilization? So that gives us some picture, I mean, in terms of the overall revenue potential of your new age capex that we are doing, yes?

See, 40,000 tons as per the today's value will give you -- will give you a INR3,000 Crores top line. For anthraquinone, carbazole, depending on the value, it can give you anything between INR250 Crores to INR300 Crores of top line. Then super speciality carbon black depending on, again, which segment we are targeting, this will be also 3x of our investment -- capital investment, 3x asset ratio.

3x asset ratio, that effectively means around INR500 Crores, right? I mean?

INR500 Crores. Right.

Okay. And what about CNT?

CNT is a small capacity, 200 metric tons. So it will not be substantial. So in the next phase, when we scale up, then the real revenue will come.

Small in the sense what, I mean, INR50 Crores, INR100 Crores?

Yes, in that kind of, not INR100 Crores, less than INR100 Crores.

Okay, INR50 Crores to INR70 Crores around about. And the last thing is, anode, yes.

So anode, we have not announced any capital investment in terms of bigger capacity. So this is a plant for approvals.

Okay. But this 200 metric tons, so what is the revenue potential of this 200 metric tons? So this gives us some understanding, I mean, yes.

So revenue potential for 200 metric tons will be INR120 Crores, INR130 Crores...

INR120 Crores, INR130 Crores. Okay. Okay. I got it. I got it. And in terms of -- are we also in future, have any strategy or planning towards going towards the cell manufacturing or something on those lines, the battery cell manufacturing. So do we have that plan as well or anything on both.

Not at all. We are a raw material component company, focused on this for the last many, many years. We want to continue in this direction. For cell manufacturing, we have invested in IBC. Idea is not to go for cell manufacturing. idea is to have a commercial play in terms of our product being displayed commercially by using -- by the cell manufacturing company, IBC. So today, Himadri product is no longer a laboratory product. It's a product which is commercially used in cells manufactured by IBC.

Understood. And this INR1,100 Crores bottom line by FY '28 remains intact that I think we have earlier mentioned, right?

Definitely.

And anything on FY '27, I mean, any outlook, I think you have not shared anything.

We don't give quarter and year guidelines, never.

The next question is from the line of Ranvir Singh from Nuvama Wealth.

I think two of my questions have already been answered. Just to elaborate a little bit on cathode material plan. So 40,000 metric tons by FY '28 and 2 lakh metric ton is our ultimate target in the next 5 years. So I think by FY '30, '31, we are planning this 2 lakh metric ton would be rolled out?

Right, right in 5 years from now. Right.

And normally, what kind of capex is required to float this kind of capacity?

So we have already announced for 200,000 tons, INR4,800 Crores of capex.

Okay. And when we talk 2 lakh metric tons, what would be the market share at that time if you have any kind of analysis would be helpful in terms of?

Global market share for LFP.

Sorry?

2% to 3% of the global LFP market.

2% to 3%. Okay. Okay. Fine. And here in the base business, in coal tar business, what is the capacity utilization of the existing capacity? And plus what we have expanded, I think 70,000 metric tons. So what will be the capacity utilization currently in both the segments?

80% capacity utilization. Looking forward during the year, we will be at 90% plus.

Taking it together or separately, you're talking for new capacity...

Together, together.

The next question is from the line of Sagar Jethwani from PhillipCapital PMS.

Congratulations on a good show. Is my voice audible?

Yes. Thank you

Yes. So in terms of the LFP cathode again, how are we competing with the Chinese players? Can you give some confidence there and also insights on the price differentiation with the Chinese player? That is my first question. Yes.

So in terms of technology, we have developed our in-house technology towards for LFP through years of research and development. And all these products, whether it's anode or cathode is always moving ahead. So we started with Gen 1, Gen 2, Gen 3. So it keeps on moving. So we have to work hand -in-hand with the customers and keep on developing new qualities depending on their requirement. That is something which is a strength of Himadri. In terms of pricing, we are trying to price our product as same as China. But base is that, we are trying to develop and set up the business.

Yes. But how does the economics work there? Because we are making considerable margins as well. And at a similar time, we are also competing with Chinese players, which have a humongous capacity and we are priced at almost like at par. So how does the economics work? Just trying to scratch my head over there?

So see, economics works, basically, we are not dependent on China for anything in this. We are not dependent on raw material. We are not dependent on anything. So our raw material source is different. Our production base is India. So we have cost advantage compared to China in many particular aspects. And given the technology that we are using, have some cost advantage altogether. So that will put us in an advantageous position compared to Chinese players.

Okay. And also, is there any client commitment regarding the supplies of LFP cathode once the capacity becomes live from Q3FY '27 and also once we are completed 40,000 of capacity. So what gives you that visibility? Is there any client commitment? Can you share some thoughts?

Yes. Definitely, see , the clients are very encouraged by our samples. And that is one of the reasons. The best example for all of that is the IBC. We supplied our LFP sample to IBC, and they were so encouraged by seeing the quality of the LFP we supplied that they came to us and we formed a strategic partnership because this will put IBC in a unique position where technology is developed outside China with supply chain positioned outside China. So this is one of the such example. Other than this, we are having very strong relationship and the sample A has been approved. Now sample B trial will start from -- once we have 2,000 metric ton capacity in place, then sample C will go sample D. So that's the reason instead of setting up 40,000 in the beginning, we have set up 2,000 so that the capex is deferred. And we don't have to wait for the orders for the plant to commission. So by the time we have 40,000 metric ton plant, we have all the approvals because the commercial grade plant is operational and then 40,000 plant is up and running in full stream.

Yes. Just a small follow-up on that. So, okay. Okay. So now actually, I had a different question on CNT also. So what kind of potential revenue in your INR30,000 Crores of revenue guidance that you gave in next 5 to 6 years, are you baking in that? Or is it excluding that? And what is the margin profile? What rate market is growing? Some insights on those lines?

See, CNT, 30,000, we gave for lithium -ion component, so which includes 100 gigawatt of capacity for anode, cathode and part of it silicon carbon. For CNT, the market is evolving. We start with 200 tons. We see the market, we evaluate the market, very high potential product with very high growth. And depending on how it goes, we will announce our next capex plan for that. These are high value-added margin products.

The next question is from the line of Parth Sodha from Trinetra Asset Managers.

Am I audible?

Yes, please.

See, there is nothing negative. By God's grace, things are moving in the right direction and things are positive only. I don't want to comment or change my projections. So I'll remain at INR1,100 Crores for next year and let the quarter speak of itself what happens. We are very positive and optimistic about the business.

The next question is from the line of Harsh Motika from SKP Securities Limited.

Congratulations on a great set of numbers for the quarter. Sir, given the West Asia situation that we had in April and May predominantly, how did that affect our realizations per ton and profitability in our core businesses?

So the best thing is to see the resilience in supply chain, which Himadri has built over the years, which is clearly depicted by the numbers we came up with even going through a deep crisis globally, geopolitical situation, we have been able to post strong n umbers. This itself shows there is no dependence on West Asia for our functioning and working. In addition to that, what is something special about Himadri, even though being a chemical company, but we are not dependent at all on China for any of our products that what happens with China, what happens with the pricing, their dumping, no dumping. So that is something we have built over the years.

Sir, also staying on the same point, we do notice that there has been a decline in sales volume for the quarter, but revenue as a total has gone up. How much of that can be attributed to a change in our sales mix towards higher -value products? And how much is on the account of passing over the raw material costs?

So see, the raw material has gone up because of which the finished product prices has gone up. That is definitely one of the part . But it's a journey in which we are transforming our product into higher value-added product. So that is, at the same time, we are continuing. Every quarter, you see we are improving in terms of bottom line, but with not similar improvement in terms of top line. The reason being we are more focused on our bottom line rather than top line. The intermediate products are used in -house and converted into finished products and value -added products. So you see the value addition coming. This quarter, you have seen top line growth. Again, next quarter coming, you'll see top line growth from both volume and value.

Sir, from the other expenses for the quarter, so if we remove the forex loss that we have booked, the other expenses stand at similar to INR148 Crores, while the same number, excluding forex losses in Q4 was about INR172 Crores. Can you please shed some light on what has led to this decline in other expenses?

And Sir, just one last question on the new businesses that you've announced during the quarter. You've already given us a ballpark idea of what the revenues would look like. Can you also give us an idea of what the margins would be from this business, whether it be CNT or SSCB?

I don't want to disclose the margins at this point of time. So at the right point of time, the numbers will speak.

The next question is from the line of Rohit Sinha from Sunidhi Securities.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers. So most of my questions are already answered. Just one or a couple from my side. One is on the IBC side, we have increased our stake recently to around 19% something. So going forward, is there any target we have internal to take up our stake in this business?

No, no, no. It's a strategic investment. It's not a financial investment. So we will remain at where we are. And this is -- IBC has developed prismatic cell lithium-ion cell technology out of China in their AI-based R&D center in California, and they have their manufacturing facility in Seoul in South Korea for 50 megawatts, which is a full commercial plant operating. So now with this integration with IBC, the Himadri product can be seen commercially used in cell. So they have already come up with a new cell like Prabal 2,000, Prabal 3,000 where Himadri LFP anode will be used, Prabal 3000 where Himadri silicon carbon and anode material will be used, hybrid material will be used. Plus they are setting up facility through their technology in India for 7 gigawatt. The work is in progress and expected to commence operation by Q4FY '27. So where IBC is giving the technology to set up the plant in which Himadri raw material will be used.

Got it. But in future also, would be looking to raise our stake, if at all required?

No. We are not looking to raise.

Okay. And secondly, sir, just on the mining side, as you have highlighted that this quarter, there was no such revenue from mining. So how the licensing progress we have and from coming quarter, any kind of number we can get on the mining side?

No, we have applied for environmental clearance. It takes time. So we don't have the visibility.

Okay. That will take time.

It will take time.

Got it.

It can take 3 months, it can take 6 months.

My first question is regarding the big swing that we had seen in forex change from a profit to a loss this quarter. So what's driving it? Is there any change in the hedging policy?

No, there is no change in the hedging policy because of the huge volatility in the currency, this happened. And this is done with. If you see last quarter also, there was a loss. This quarter, again, there's a loss. From next quarter, there will not be any impact on account of FX negative impact. So this is the last quarter for this because of so much of volatility in the currency, this happened. But looking forward, it's not going to happen.

Okay. Sir, second question related to this. So last year, we had seen good foreign gains, which led to higher other income component. So sir, this quarter, we are again seeing a higher rise in the other income portion. So what is driving that? What compone nt led to such growth if FX was a loss this quarter?

So this quarter, if you see 2, 3 factors. One, we have deployed a lot of fund in terms of interest in FDs. We have borrowed from bank and CPs and deployed in FDs, so which gives us a delta. So that helps to have interest earning on our investments. Plus, we have made investment in mutual funds. So that is part of it. Other than this, we have made investment in IBC, Sicona, NCDs of Birla Tyres. So mark -to-market of that is also helping us to -- that was the reason for other income.

So Sir, this is the usual run rate that we should assume from now onwards when it comes to other income?

This will vary 30% to 40% quarter-on-quarter.

Okay. And Sir, last question, the new capex that you have announced. So are we planning to take any incremental debt or in FY '27, the free cash flow will cover that?

Yes, definitely, the free cash flow will cover that. There is no question of any incremental debt.

The next question is from the line of Bhavin Chheda from Enam Holdings.

Congratulations on excellent number and very exciting projects over the next 5 years. What would be the year-wise capex, if you can guide for next 2 or 3 years? Total consolidated.

Yes, total capex we have announced is around INR2,000 Crores, INR1,125 Crores for LFP, INR368 Crores announced yesterday. So that brings to around INR1,500 Crores of capex, plus INR500 Crores of capex this year in Birla Tyres. So total INR2,000 Crores. Out of this, we expect around INR1,000 Crores of capex happening this year and INR1,000 Crores next year.

INR2,000 Crores. And coal tar pitch, you are at 6 lakh tons. So there, no capex is happening?

There is no capex is happening. Right.

Distillation and no capex. So INR1,000 Crores this year, then INR1,000 Crores next year?

Right. And Birla Tyres, I think I heard on your CNBC interview, your quarterly sales was INR127 Crores?

Right, right.

Okay. And that's EBITDA positive?

Not yet. So now Birla Tyres is reflected on Dalmia Refractory balance sheet. So once it becomes part of Himadri, then the numbers will come. So it is through a subsidiary that we are selling. Tyres, that revenue is recognized in Himadri.

So the difference between consolidated sales and stand-alone sales is largely Birla Tyres?

It's largely -- largely Birla Tyres, yes.

Okay. And in case of the core business, coal tar and carbon black, these margins are sustainable?

Definitely, the way we have built up the business over the years is on sustainable value margins. So if you look at coal tar pitch, which we supply material to our customers at the lowest price globally. Did you hear me answer.

Yes, I think you said INR1,000 Crores this year, next year margins are sustainable. And sir last question on the tyre ramp up, if any guidance there?

So we are ramping up quarter -on-quarter if you see compared to the last quarter this quarter is higher in terms of volumes, in terms of sales. We will continue this trajectory and in next 4 years to 5 years the target is to reach INR3,000 Crores of top line in Birla tyres.

And what is the EBITDA breakeven level for the turnover?

We reach EBITDA breakeven in this financial year only. We will be cash positive.

This financial year?

Yes, will be cash positive.

Okay. Thank you, sir.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Tanvi Warekar from Anand Rathi Institutional Equities.

Just a follow -up on the LFP cathode pricing, where you said that your pricing is competitive versus China. Just wanted to know from our workings, we arrived that we won't be making any money like we are arriving at a gross -- negative gross spread on this if we compare the China pricing versus the input cost calculation. So just wanted to know like where are we sourcing the lithium carbonate because that is like a major driver for the spreads on LFP. Do we have any advantage over there?

See, I'll suggest that it is not possible for you to calculate my cost on Excel sheet and come to a conclusion. It took a long time for us to come to a conclusion and see how to make profit. And on Excel sheet by seeing at few prices, you cannot determine what is the margin. But we are confident we'll work on it, and I cannot disclose my sources. That is confidential.

The next question is from the line of Bhavika from Niveshaay.

Am I audible?

Yes, please.

Yes. So basically, most of my questions have been answered. I need to know as we continue to emphasize that we are shifting our product mix and that will lead to a higher profitability. So can you like tell us like what's the product margin mix from the cu rrent capex which we are doing, if you can broadly explain or in terms of pricing difference, if you can explain that, if not possible, with the margin?

Pricing difference as we move up the ladder, we go for the niche product, all the capex we have announced yesterday has significant high margins and significantly differently priced altogether. So there will be no comparison between what we are doing, what pricing we are doing, what margins we are having today and what margin will these products bring.

So how do you expect our blended EBITDA margin to go over the next 2 to 3 years?

So you calculate on the basis of what we are performing.

Sorry, I didn't get it.

You calculate on the basis of our results, what we are performing.

Okay. And also -- okay, got it. Also, sir, like as we are talking about the anode side, the pilot plant which we have, as per my understanding, we are doing with meso coke technology, which is different than other players in the market. And when we look at the other players, they have been doing the pilot plant since like years. So how confident we are that we will be able to onboard customers for our anode like pilot plant? How -- like are we seeing the traction from the customer that they are getting the confidence on our product as compared to...

First of all, no one is doing this product before Himadri. Himadri is a pioneer in this. So there's no other plant in India who has pilot plant before Himadri. So Himadri has set up 200 ton plant now, but pilot plant is there for last many, many years. And we have done -- and we are doing it on different types of raw material. So our raw material is one of it, other raw materials. So we have all the varieties of finished product available with us, depending on the appetite requirement and specific uses of the user industry, we will produce the anode material and supply to them. Depending on what price they give, depending on what qual ity they want, we will do it.

Definitely. There's a huge traction from the customer traction. Because of the quality of what we are producing, there is great interest from customers in India and globally.

Got it. So what's the timeline we can expect them getting converted on the full -fledged commercialization at a large scale, if you can guide on that?

See, I have not made any public disclosure on that. So on a call, I don't want to make any public disclosure. So once we come up, we will come up with -- we'll come up with the announcement, formal announcement for the capacity.

Okay. And Sir, just last one clarity on the super speciality carbon where you have mentioned. Can you explain like how this is different from the speciality carbon, like you have already explained a bit. But I want to know in terms of application, like how it differs i n terms of application? And what -- like how big the market TAM is for the particular super speciality carbon black we are talking about.

Yes. I told the market is not very big, very specialized 300,000 ton market and very niche application, very high value-added applications. I don't want to go into details of application as such. But if you look at margins, the margins are significantly hi gher than speciality carbon black. So there is no comparison between speciality margins and super speciality margins. These are significantly higher.

Okay. And sir, in the previous answer, you once mentioned that you are also focusing on the natural anode like synthetic anode you were talking about -- natural anodes you were talking about. As we are already in synthetic anode like materials, then why we are going for the natural, like I want to understand from where we are seeing the traction in the mark et in the industry, if you can?

So some customers need low -value anodes. Some need medium value, some need high value. So depending on customer appetite, we should have all the products available with us. Some need blend anodes, natural synthetic silicon. So as an anode producer, we will showcase a unique proposition to our customers, having all types of anode material.

So like what's our plan in the natural side, if you can -- like do we have current...

Natural also -- already we are producing natural anodes. Synthetic we are producing. Silicon carbon, our partner is producing. So all will be integrated in Himadri over a period of time.

Okay. Got it. That’s all, sir. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Due to time constraints, we take that as the last question of the day. And now I hand the conference over to Mr. Anurag Choudhary for closing comments.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Let me close by thanking each of you for joining us today and for your continued interest and for thoughtful engagement we continue to receive around Himadri. I hope our discussion has given you a clear sense not just of where we stand today, but of the direction in which we are building the business. As I mentioned at the outset, we are pursuing our ambition with discipline, funding it from our own balance sheet and building it on firm foundations of safety, sustainability and trust. I remain confident that the decisions we are taking today will compound into meaningful and lasting value over the years ahead. We would like to thank all our stakeholders and partners for their continued trust an d to the entire Himadri family. T hank you for your dedication and commitment that makes all this possible. Our Investor Relations team remains available for any further questions and would look forward to staying engaged in quarters ahead. Thank you once again and I wish you all a very good evening. Thank you.

On behalf of Himadri Speciality Chemicals Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.