RHI MAGNESITA INDIA LIMITED analyst Q&A

The first question is from the line of Garvita Jain from Seven Islands PMS.

I have one question. As mentioned that there was on etime bonus received. Can you quantify what was the amount of the bonus received during the quarter? Plus, what are the other factors which are driving the ma rgins for us and the sustainable margins?

When Azim said one-time bonus, it doesn't mean it i s one time. During the last quarter, we did some ladle and converter lining. And over a period of time, it starts to realize as bonus because there's a guarantee cla use and when you are overachieving that guarantee, then you are getting bonus. So that we got in this quarter, and we assume that it will continue in nex t quarter as well. Because whatever we supply to the steel industry on guarant ee basis, it is yielding results in terms of bonus.

We don't give those outlooks for the current performance. We don't separate out that performance purely because it's very difficult even for us also to model this because it has multiple factors. One, how many contr acts we have. Second is also the performance of the products and when it will be realized based upon the steel production or consumption of our material. So we don't give out this information. We have never done that historically, we will not start to do that now also. Thank you.

The amount of bonus cannot be disclosed?

No. We don't do that because of the variability, as I mentioned earlier.

Okay And the margins this quarter despite this bonus has increased because of what are the reasons, sir?

Yes, absolutely. Sorry, the question was not clear.

It was because of the product mix majorly, right?

Absolutely. In the previous quarter, we had high cement orders as well that had a lower realization rate. This time, we have low cement orders. We also have some high-margin OEM orders that also contribute to the i ncrease in the margins as well along with the performance bonus.

Okay. Thankyou sir

The next question is from the line of Amit Agicha f rom HG Hawa.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers. So what is the total installed capacity across plants and the utilization rate? And what wi ll be the peak revenue if the plant is 100% utilized?

So the current quarter capacity utilization on a consolidated basis is 64%. Again, the installed revenue on overall capacity utilizati on cannot be directly derived because of multiple reasons. One is the pricing abil ity, in Chairman's remarks, you have clearly heard that we have quite a bit of a market headwind, So the realization rate is subject to (especially for the commodity products), it is subject to the market conditions. So you cannot directly co nsolidate it. Second reason is that our lines are sometimes flex ible, which means sometimes we can do different product portfolio on the same line. So it is very difficult for us to say that if fully produced, you're going to get this because in some months, we have project orders, , especially for the industrial, let's say, like NFM, glass, which has higher realization rate versus a cement brick, which has probably a lower realization rate, it will completely change up the number. Having said that, the line process is completely d ifferent, the raw materials and the recipes that we use are completely different. S o unlike cement or steel industry, it's very difficult to directly give an e stimate here.

And sir, the next question is about the recycling p ercent target. Like, currently, I think so in the presentation, it is mentioned 19%?

Yes. So our target is to take it beyond 20% in comi ng year. It will be a gradual process. You cannot jump from 19% to 25% or so. You need to see the products where you can increase without impacting any qualit y or performance. We are not compromising. We are using recycled material af ter thorough processing as raw material, not just taking out a used material a nd crushing and putting it in some place. It will be gradual, but still we are do ing reasonably well.

Thank you for answering question.

The next question is from the line of Rajesh Majumd ar from B&K Securities.

Yes, sir. So I had a question on the realization. W hile it has jumped from INR73,000 to INR 80,000-odd sequentially, this capt ures some part of the performance bonus. Is that correct? So what is the realistic realization growth that has happened this quarter? And what is the sus tainable realization per ton? I just want to get a hang of the price increase tha t you have got, that's all.

Rajeshji, yes, it has an impact of bonus in realization, but it is not substantial that it cannot underline that it is because of bonus, right? And it will keep on changing also depending upon the product mix, like this quar ter, Jan, Feb, March is a lean period for cement industry. So it will have a diffe rent impact on volumes and profitability in that particular segment. But at th e same time, if you have a high end, like Azim was saying, glass order or coke oven order, then it also rectify it, neutralize it also. So I think anything between 76 to 80 should be the numbers are healthy, numbers without any performance bonuses, e tc.

Also, just to clarify for everybody on the call, wh at do we mean by performance bonus? This also has an impact on the realization rate in the previous quarter, for these contracts, we have installed the material, that means we have taken a cost in our P&L and we have not realized any revenue or profitability because you earn after the product performs. So, there is a lag in the way we earn the money for the cost that we have incurred in the previous quarter. So this also has an impact on the realization rate s as well. We call it bonus because it comes a bit late and also it depends upo n how much performance it gives. So although it's called a bonus, it's just a lag effect of the materials that we install and the performance of the product. These b oth determine our performance bonuses.

Yes, sir. That's useful. Just a follow-up question on the margins. So we had guided 14% to 15% margin that we are going to see in terms of our normal business coming through in fourth quarter. This is without t he project order.

Rajeshji, there's a saying, Ye Dil Mange More. The heart also asks for more, but we have too much headwind. I still say we wanted to have a sustainable margin between 14%- 15%. This is our wishful thinking and not only thinking, we are working towards that with various processes and lev ers, actions in place. That's why you see upside in this quarter. And I cannot pr e-empt for the next quarter, but I think we should be now in this line in coming days as well. Whatever the action taken, it will keep on yielding results in c oming days as well.

Thank you, sir.

The next question is from the line of Mayank Bhanda ri from Asian Market Securities.

Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, what would be the export contribution in the 9- month...

It is flat as of now like last year, 9%-10%, the international market is so docile. We did a lot of trial, but I think in last quarter also, I mentioned this, maybe in '26 April onwards, we will have some upside in exports becaus e whatever trial we did in these 9 months and are doing in this current quarte r, probably it will start converting into orders. So there will be some uptic k. But at the same time, it will not be exponential be cause the export is only isostatic and slide gate refractory, which we call flow control. So flow control, tonnage-wise or revenue-wise is about 25% of your t otal revenue. So if it is 25% and if it increases, maybe from 9%, 10%, it will go to 11% or 11.5% or 12%. It will not be from 9%-10% to 20%,

So flow Control contribution also is, I mean, flat Y-o-Y means the overall, as part of the overall revenue?

There is a bit of increase, but not substantial.

Okay. And just on the margin, if you could just give a flavor on the Q4, what we are expecting in terms of margin?

That's what I said to the Rajesh Ji also. We expect , it should be on similar lines, if not better.

Slightly better.

We have to be a bit cautious because of market cond itions.

The next question is from the line of Abinash Swame nathan from NAFA Capital.

Congrats on a good set of numbers. Just a couple of questions. So earlier, say, 5- 6 years back, we were completely focused on the ste el segment, and now we have progressed into the cement and iron. Is it because of the stagnation in time, the time growth in the steel segment that resulted in us exploring this lower- margin opportunities? That's number one. Number two, can you also quantify our current market share in steel, cement and iron.

So I will take this. I think our strategy always h as been to grow in refractory business. And if you're covering steel market, you will very well know that the Indian GDP consumption for cement is the lowest in the entire world, especially for the middle class market. So because of this, we are, very clearly seeing that the infrastructure spend would be also going higher from a government perspective. So these two factors point to a very clear realiza tion that the cement market is going to boom in the upcoming years. I'm talking 2 years back. And today, it's a reality. Even in the current union budget, you can see the amount of infrastructure spend was allocated. So with this in mind, we wanted to also grow in the cement market. And hence, we did a couple of acquisitions that supported our cement growth market. To clarify the second question. Although it is lower realization, there's going to be a good growth opportunity. And our strategy from the beginning was that we want to be having the highest market share and grow with the market where possible or in some cases, outgrow the market as well. And t o outgrowth of the market, we are focusing more on the iron making DRI, coke o ven and pellet business. Now coming to the market share, we have about 32% market share in the steel side. And on the cement side, we have close to abou t 40%- 41% of market share in the business to answer your question.

Just a follow-up. In the cement segment, last quart er, we said that the margins have improved to 11.4%. So how is the margin for th is quarter?

Sorry, can you repeat the question? The margin was how much you said in the last quarter?

So in the last quarter, we were told that the margi n in the Cement segment specifically was 11.4%. It improved from 8% to 11.4 %. So what could be the margin from this quarter?

We normally don't give out the margin separately by steel and cement. I'm just -- I cannot recognize that number, but...

Probably, you are saying from Dalmia plant.

That's right.

Right? It is not cement, but yes, primarily it is t he industrial business. So that is almost at same level, 10.5% to 11% or so.

Exactly right.

Perfect. Congrats on a great set of numbers.

The next question is from the line of Pathanjali Srinivasan from Sundaram Mutual Fund.

I have a couple of questions. So firstly, can you t ell me what is the revenue mix for the quarter between cement and steel? And did w e get any benefits of new plant commissioning in this quarter?

So let me give you the number for the ratio between cement and steel. So steel was at about 80%. Industrial was 20%, of which ceme nt in particular, was close to about 10%. And for the greenfield, yes, we have signed some new contracts with some of the greenfield project with one of the biggest industrials, integrated steel plants somewhere in Punjab.

We just signed a 4PRO contract with Tata Steel Ludhiana in the month of January, which will get commissioned somewhere in the middle of the year, we'll start taking the benefit.

Middle of March, probably they have a target to commission. So next fiscal, it will be upside. The business should be on the tune of, s ay, INR 50 crores to INR 60 crores additional business from that 4PRO business.

Exactly.

And it is end-to-end furnace, ladle, ISO and flow control, everything. The first time in Tata Group strategy, they have given from the co mmissioning stage 4PRO contract to any refractory industry in the world. S o that is a big achievement, I'd say.

Great, sir. And next question I have is, with respe ct to the quarter, we saw a fair bit of improvement in margins. So can you explain h ow this margin switch has happened? Is it because of improvement in pricing w ith respect to product mix? Or is it because of a general reduction in input cos ts? What is the lever that's helping us to generate this higher margin?

We cannot pinpoint one lever. We are working on man y things. Raw material softened a little bit, yes, but we are seeing input cost. At the same time, we did operational excellence in our plants to control the cost. We started working on optimization of recipes, product specification to t he, exactly to the requirement of the customer, we started increasing our recyclin g rate in our plants. We are working on reducing our scrap rate or rejec tions. So there are multiple things. At the same time, we are very cautious abou t pricing with our customer wherever we need a price increase, we are pushing for that. And at the same time, if the pricing is bad, we are not into rat race.

Yes, sir.

Okay. So if you had to bifurcate like we had a 200 b ps improvement in gross margin. How much would you say came from internal efficiencies and how much is from RM softening?

Your question was not clear. Bifurcation of what yo u were speaking, can you please repeat?

Yes. So the 200 bps improvement that we have in gro ss margins, could you tell me like how much of it came in from internal effici encies and how much of it is from softening of raw materials?

You cannot see the direct bifurcation, but if you have to make an assumption, you can look into the other expenses. Maybe that will g ive you a very good idea in terms of how we have improved our operational cost as such. From a per ton perspective, that's one of the ways to look at that . But again, it's a super high level, just from assumption purposes, you can use t hat. On the material cost, you can say that although we had a softening in the alumina prices, this was further negated by FM, graphite an d bauxite price increases as well. so you need to take this number with a pinch of salt here...

I do get the broad reduction in other expenses, tha t is second. Only thing is the improvement in gross margin. Is it a pricing functi on where we went for a better quality of product mix? Or is it because we had bene fit from input cost margin? So I'm just trying to figure out the mix...

As Parmodji mentioned, see, in the previous quarter, we had low-margin cement order. So you had a realization impact. This time, you don't have the low-margin cement order. Second, we had more converters, RH de gassers that we sold in the current quarter. So you had a product mix impro vement as well. Now as Parmodji mentioned on top of this, we had some oper ational excellence programs, which we do normally. Every quarter, we do this as a part of our continu ous effort where we are focused on operational excellence program, which focuses on two things. One is productivity. Second is on the safety measures. So this also aided our benefit because as you saw that our volumes are lower, which means that on the cement side, we had lower volumes. The question is how do you effectively plan your m anpower, raw materials and finished goods and these kind of operational excell ence program have further improved our results. I hope that gave a clarity.

Yes. That explains it very well. I just have one la st question. Can you tell me like what is our target with respect to this traded goods volume that we have with our parent? And are we trying to substitute that with a bit of domestic production going forward? Do we have any strategy there in pla ce?

Absolutely. So your voice was not clear, but let me repeat the question. Your question was what is the target that we are looking forward in the trading percentage. The answer is that we don't have any sp ecific target there. But if you ask me differently, do we want to localize it? Yes, you can see in our investor deck on the R&D page in terms of the amount of new produ ct transfers and development we are doing. Again, the focus is more to get some highly specia lized product, especially in the area of cement and some of the high-end technically advanced solution. We are in the process of transferring now. Once we have tra nsferred the technology, we need to localize it to the local market demand. So yes, our domestic production on this product po rtfolio will increase quarter- by-quarter. It will be a slow and steady increase b ecause we need to have the product acceptability. We need to demonstrate throu gh various trials. And once there's an acceptance, we will see the production v olume increase. I think you are seeing this in the trading percentage also going low as well. So over the course of years, yes, it will increase.

Yes. Just to continue on that, I get that you are, directionally, you're moving towards a higher mix. I'm just trying to figure out what would be our long-term or say, a 3-year target in terms of how much of our vo lumes would we want to keep entirely from our domestic production? Because I th ink today, 40% roughly in terms of volumes is from the traded parent. So what would be a number that we would look at to achieve a couple of years down the line?

So these volumes are not only the parent company, t hese volume also includes the toll manufacturing as well. So please bear that in mind that it's not like 40 percentage of the volumes we are completely trading , we're getting from the group. That's the first assumption I want to clarif y. The second, is that if you think about the product transfer, we look at it from how much of added benefit it will have. Again, based on multiple factors, one is the closeness of raw material. Some of the products are very closer to our parent company's raw material production, So you get quite a bit of unique geological benefit. Of course, these products we will not trans fer. The products we will transfer is that where we have availability of raw material, our ability to produce the technology. And third, of course, is a solid bu siness case. We only entertain if the business case’s ROIC is in double digit. Once these three things gets qualified, that's where we make the investment and ensure that it's moving. At the moment, if you look at it, we are more focu sing on our industrial business, which is cement, nonferrous metal and glass. So thi s is where we are focusing apart from some of the acquisitions that we have do ne recently. So this is where we think about how we can localize the product port folio. We'll not give the percentage because it will tip off the market in terms of what are the products we are bringing in here as well. B ut we will keep on updating whatever products get transferred. On Page number 17 , we can see in the investor deck something similar, we will start to p ublicize this.

The next question is from the line of Ashish Kejriw al from Nuvama.

Many congratulations for a good set of numbers. Sir , my question is again on the margins. As you rightly pointed out in the beginnin g of the conversation that situation in the market is not so great in terms of oversupply situation. But at the same time, if you look at the profitability of stee l businesses, that has improved significantly in last 2 quarters or last 1 quarter. So do you think that from here on, if any margin in crease could happen, will it be possible for us to take price hikes to improve the margins? Or its margin improvement can only depend on our product mix or internal efficiencies? That's my first question.

We always try to get price increases from our custo mer wherever is possible. At the same time, market is so overcapacity. And with due respect to our competition, most of the competition try to grab order at any price. So when they are so aggressive to get the order then getting pri ce increase becomes very, very difficult. In one of the cases, I just gave you an example in one project, cement project, we were at 8% margin and then the counter came to us with 13% lower margin, 13% negative margin. And one of our competitors took that, and it is not a B or C grade competition. It was A grade, our level of competiti on. So some people try to just grab the order to fill their additional capacities, which they have created. So it became very, very difficul t to go and say, I need a premium, I need a different pricing than the compet ition. So best way is how you can control your cost, how can you increase your efficiency, productivity, reduce your scrap rates, increase your recycling -- so we are working on that. At the same time, we will keep on striving for pri ce increases. As you said, steel industry, if they will have a comfortable situation with their margins, definitely they will not be so rigid about price. But at the same time, industry as a whole has to behave responsibly.

Understood. And secondly, whatever cost benefit we could have taken on account of raw material cost lower that we have alr eady factored in. And from here on, we are not expecting at least for a quarte r or two, any raw material cost advantage to kick in the P&L?

Yes, I fully agree with you. We don't see now becau se alumina prices are at its bottom. So it can go up, it will not go down furthe r. Magnesia, if we talk about, it has a bit of upside, and I don't see it will go fur ther up. So I can say it can be a status quo for the next 2- 3 months to maybe 4- 6 m onths. There will not be a substantial delta, upside or downside.

And lastly, sir, because now we are into net cash status. So two things, either will promoters will be willing to buy stake if Dalmia tr ies to reduce their stake from 13%? Are the companies willing to increase our stak e? Or are the promoters willing to increase the stake in the company? Or wit h this cash status, are we more inclined to go for any inorganic expansion?

As of now, nothing is on the table. We have not dis cussed anything at length whether we want to buy back those shares or not. Ma ybe if Dalmia has to come forward, whether they want to sell it off or not, and then we will take a call whether we want to or not. And about the second part, what we are saying is inorganic that also we don't see in '26. I wanted to consolidate whatever we acquired but a gain, if the Group company will push us, this is great opportunity, we should do that, we will definitely try to do that. But as of now, my idea is just to consolid ate, bring the margin level to a respectable level, sustainable margin and then thin k of further expansion or acquiring the company.

Very clear. So at least promoters are not averse to buying Dalmia stake if it comes in the market?

I'm not saying they are not averse. We have not even discussed because Dalmia's has not reached out to us whether they want to sell off their shares or not. When they will reach out, then we will talk to the paren t company, Stefan Borgas, our Global CEO. And then we will come to know whether th ey are averse or not averse.

The next question is from the line of Sahil Sanghvi from Monarch Networth Capital.

Congratulations again for a record revenue number. My first question is, if you can help me understand what is the percentage of im ports that is posing a big competition to our Indian market. I mean, what is t he percentage to our total demand, if you can give some number? And also, what kind of products are these? Are these largely brakes or just a bit of co lour on that? What kind of products are these?

So our export revenue percentage for the Q3 number i s 11.

He is asking import.

Import. Okay. My apologies. I misunderstood it. Yes. So we group this number with the set of the trading percentage numbers. We don't give out this specifically because it gives us a little bit of a competitive edge in terms of the product profile that we import, Sahil.

I think, sorry, I'll just rephrase my question. I m eant as a country, the kind of imports that we are having, which is posing a threa t to the overall -- how it's getting an oversupplied market. So just that, on th at colour, I mean, Parmod, sir, did allude to a lot of imports coming. So yes…

So Sahilji, mostly, there are two buckets. One is w here we have a technological advantage like our product like ANKRAL. Everyone, o ur competition over the ages, years after year try to copy that, they could not because of some inherent raw material available with us, and this is a very niche product. So we cannot make it in India, So we will keep on importing beca use for electric arc furnace, this is the heart of that performance, and that gives us a lot of advantage over our competition. So same way, there are a few products. I'll just g ive you one example. There are a few products where we have real technological advan tage and we have a raw material over there, so we don't want to shift it to India. There are some products which we are still importing and we are doing the a ccreditation in Indian plants. We are doing the trials in Indian plants. And gradually, we will shift those products to our Indian plant to take this capacity level fro m 64% to 75% and beyond. So it is a time-consuming process. We are doing that gradually. We understand the mar ket dynamics. If we go local for local, we have advantage with the same product because we will be doing technology transfer to Indian plants. So these are 2 buckets. One, we will not touch. The other, we gradually will shift to India.

Right. Right, sir. And, so second question is that in FY '25, the total revenue contribution from total refractory management was r oughly 41%, as I can see in the annual report. Any sense you can give what that number could be this year? I mean, maybe ending this year or currently where we are on that number?

Ending this year, probably will remain same. Next y ear, we should have an advantage of 4% to 5% upside, Arora and this Tata a nd all those things. So it will be up 4%-5%.

The next question is from the line of Swaraj Mehta from Perpetual Capital Advisors.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I wanted to understand from the induction furnace point of view, could you provide a breakdown of the revenue contribution from induction furnace and ramming mas s within your portfolio? And how do you see the market of ramming mass developing? Like how is it going from unorganized to organized? And what matters for induction furnaces? Like is it the cost proximity or price for ramming mass?

When you talk about ramming mass, it is a very gene ric term, ramming mass. There are silica ramming mass, which people are usi ng. We don't make silica ramming mass. So one product which you are talking about is not under our radar. There are some other ramming masses like neutral ramming mass that we want to pursue. We did some trials, we will definit ely be more aggressive in that market. If you talk about induction furnace, I don' t know why you're so much interested only in the induction furnace, but I don't have any hesitation to say it is about INR 500 crores business or so.

The next question is from the line of Praveen Jayar am from Avendus Spark.

Sir, my question is also in the line of localization. So we understood that we won't be giving a specific number unclear, but directiona lly, how have we been in this localization trend when we compare to our last year 's when we were giving out the trading numbers?

Sorry, your voice was not -- we could hear you, but your voice was not clear, so we couldn't understand your question.

So I understood that we won't be giving our trading numbers, which you were giving during like last year con call. So direction ally, how have we been in this localization journey when we compare it to last yea r, even if it is not a specific number?

Absolutely. We have introduced quite a bit of new products, especially on the iron making side, wherever we wanted to make -- which al igns with our strategic initiatives, we were able to make quite a bit of a significant progress. Hence, in the last 3 quarters of our investor deck, we are ma king it absolutely clear what are the kind of products that we are doing. Our foc us will increase rather than stable, hence this will increase. As I said, it has multiple factors. One is our abi lity to get the raw material. Second is our ability to localize these recipes for our Indian customer needs. Third is trial stage and fourth is acceptability. So if you think about in this whole process, we have introduced quite a bit of new products on the iron making side. We'll continue to do so. We have done something on the cement side. We will continue to do so. And now we are also importing quite a bit of advanced technical specialized refractory for the upcoming quarters as well.

Sir, my second question is again a follow-up to an earlier participant. So we were discussing about our margin levers where we discuss ed about price increase, internal efficiency or volume growth. In that, whil e we were discussing about price increase, with the competition scenario right now, price increase will not be something which we can go aggressive on. But the realization which we are at right now, is that sustainable? Like I heard the nu mber to be INR 78,000 to INR 80,000 range. Is that trend sustainable with the co mpetition intensity right now?

As of now, yes, we think it is a sustainable number , in the short term. But market is so volatile, I cannot predict after 6 months or so what will happen. But as of now, yes, it is sustainable.

At least for 3 months

Sir, in the Total Refractory Management contracts, which we enter, we would be willing to rate upfront for a certain period?

Yes. Yes. We have to fix rate for a certain period, and then there's a rate negotiation or price negotiation periodically. In s ome cases, we are 6 months, in some cases, it's 1 year.

Right. Right. And this contributes to 40% to 43% of our business?

As of now, yes, 40%-41%, I think.

It's 33 percentage is for the previous quarter. I t hink 45% is not the right number. I think one of the analysts mentioned that for FY ' 24, it was 31.3%. In the current quarter, it is 33.1%.

Right, sir. So this includes both 4PRO and TRM?

Yes. See, we stopped doing TRM because as Parmodji mentioned earlier that we wanted to include 2 piece here. One is the planet pi ece, which is the sustainability part in terms of how we can effectiv ely get the recycled material from our customers. Second is also the usage of rob otics and robotics using artificial intelligence to ensure a safe and highly productive operations for our customers. So that's why it's slightly different th an the previous TRM, but TRM is a subset of 4PRO. Let's put it like that.

Yes. So your question and whatever you asked is right, it is a combination of TRM and 4PRO. In some cases, it's still TRM. We did not succeed to get the material back or putting a robotic or artificial intelligence. It is very, very conventional TRM in most of the cases. In some cases, it is 4PRO. But now we start using terminology of 4PRO, just to emphasize on our customer, on our team itself, that this is the way forward.

The next question is from the line of Neha Jain, an Individual Investor.

Sir, I just wanted to understand for these new prod ucts that are in pipeline, how can we expect the contribution in the coming year f or '27? Like what percentage can be expected in the next 1 to 2 years?

So if you refer to Page number 18 in our investor deck, you can see that Magnesia spinel bricks for our cement customers. So we are already selling these products to our customer today. Now what will happen is that we will localize this production rather than getting it as an imported product. So you will get a working capital benefit here. And you have the Mag-Chrome bricks for RH Degassers. We will be localizing the production because, again, you pay lesser productio n cost maybe comparing to the place where we are importing this from today. P lus on top of it, we save on the transit time. So there are various advantages, some will be additional revenue, some will be you get a working capital benefit, So this is the way we see this improvement per se. Again, it depends on the p roduct portfolio and other things, but yes, definitely, it will overall improv e our margin by very, very lesser percentage. But on the overall net cash performance , you will see quite a huge benefit, Neha, if that helps.

And coming to the working capital part, do we have a lot of stress due to the PSU receivables?

can you please repeat question? Again, it was not c lear.

Stress due to PSU receivables on the working capita l front.

Yes, we do have healthy receivables from the PSU fr ont. We don't see any big challenges today as probably we had once -- last ye ar, it's improved quite significantly. Again, that was only with RINL. And I think there, due to the cash infusion on the RINL side, it has improved. It is g etting better and better. Still, we have some collectibles. But overall, we are in a ve ry healthy position with our PSU.

Sir, one question on the sector, IFGL Refractories. We've seen a lot of CEO exits, and what is happening in that company? Is the compa ny up for sale? Or what is happening there? Are they competing also actively in the market? Or what do you see happening there?

Look, we love IFGL. I don't want to give any commen ts on that. But I'm really surprised to see their results. I don't know what w ent wrong. Only thing is that they are trying to be everywhere. Their core streng th was flow control, etcetera, but now they are trying to be everywhere. Their emp loyee costs have gone up exceptionally. I don't know why. Rajeshji, you are sitting in Calcutta. I thought you will give us some feedback...

Yes. I think that industry structure can change qui te a bit if IFGL scales down or whatever is what I was thinking.

I think you need to ask them, not us because you ca n ask us about 4PRO, about our margins, we will be able to explain this better . hopefully.

that's why I started with we love IFGL. So as the m anagement, we are all friends.

Great.

No, sure sir. Congratulations once again on your nu mbers.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question fo r today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Parmod Sagar for cl osing comments.

Thank you very much, dear investors, shareholders, analysts for your continuous support. Keep guiding us, keep asking us sometimes not so comfortable questions so that we are more agile, we are more pr epared and keep on pushing us. We love to be under a bit of pressure to delive r good results. So I can assure you, at RHI Magnesita India Limite d, we are trying our best to further improve the results, further improve the pe rformance and the investors should get their due benefits -- by investing in th is company, which is having a very strong fundamental. And in coming days, it will further improve. So thank you very much for this call and your trust on us. Have a good day.

On behalf of RHI Magnesita India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.