Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. The first question is from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Quarter ended Dec 2023
Yes, hi. Thanks for taking my question, Warren, and congratulations on a very good operating performance. My first questi on is on the outlook, especially around VinFast...
Sorry to interrupt you, sir. May I request you to use your handset, sir? Your audio is slightly muffled, sir.
Sure.
Thank you.
Hi. Is this better?
Yes, sir. Please go ahead.
Yes, hi. Thanks for taking my questions and congratulations on a good operating performance. Warren, I wanted to pick your brain around outlook on VinFast specifically first. You said you expect some drop i n Q4 as well. I wanted to understand if Q4 will probably be the last of the decline in this account, and then we can see some stability, or how should we think about VinFast, given that most of the programs you're working on are coming to an end?
Yes. Thanks, Abhishek, and it's great to hear from you. In terms of VinFast, as I positioned in the opening comments, we began the transition from engineering and developing the two EVs that we've been responsible for. We began the transition to launch support in Q2. That accelerated in Q3, and we'll be largely through that transition at the end of Q4. So as we go into FY'25, the base will largely be unaffected by any volatility or change at VinFast. We expect a slight tapering of growth in Q4, but a s we go | 10 into the next fiscal year, we're very bullish about our prospects for Q1, Q2, Q3, and Q4.
Just one quick follow-up on VinFast. We've heard VinFast plan to enter India and set up factory here. Does that give us scope of improving that relationship and maybe expanding it, and therefore should we expect some growth once they enter India?
Yes, I think as with many new energy vehicle companies, when they develop product, they develop their first products that underpin their portfolio. They quickly shift to building product and to selling product, and that's the phase that VinFast are in. I think that their prospects for further expansion and for expanding the manufacturing capacity is going to be somewhat dependent and linked to the success of their current portfolio. We're very proud of the relationship with VinFast. We're very excited about the impact that they can have on the overall market. But the timing for when they come here to India and the timing associated with when they will launch new product investments is still, from our perspective, still somewhat up in the air.
Okay. One last question from my side on the large deal that you mentioned, $50 million deal. The rebalancing of engineering resources from US to India, it sounds a little counterfactual to the insourcing trend that we hear in the market. I just wanted to understand, is it because the OEMs are increasingly under budget constraints and therefore that is driving higher offshoring? Is that kind of driven by that? And if so, do you see this kind of trend accelerating going forward? Thank you.
I think if you look at the North American market and you look at Detroit specifically, I think despite the investments that have been made in offshoring, a substantial part of the Detroit resource pool that is leveraged by the big three and the Tier 1s is somewhat still dependent upon staffing companies. I think that given the need to invest in capacity and new skills, I think all of the companies that define the North American market, I think they are increasingly looking to India and to offshore locations like Eastern Europe to satisfy that new demand. And that’s really what this deal is focused upon. As the clock speed of technology change continues to accelerate, the access to local talent is important.
Great, that is very helpful. Thank you and all the best, Warren. | 11
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Jay Vleeschhouwer from Griffin Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Hello, Warren. You made some very interesting remarks concerning the evolution of the automotive ecosystem as you see it, and as well your own evolution in terms of your offerings and now your partnership announcements. With that in mind, two things if I may. Number one, what are you seeing in terms of your engagement or pipeline with regard to functions that complement PLM? I have in mind specifically, for example, simulation, ALM and other associated applications. Are you beginning to see more demand for those functions to complement your PLM implementation work? Then with regard to the partnerships, the comments about Intel and ARM are quite interesting. Would it stand to reason that you could take that a step further and also partner with any role of the EDA companies, such as Siemens, with whom you already have a relationship, or the others to further deepen your exposure to the electronics world?
It is great to hear from you, Jay. Again, thanks fo r joining the conference call and thanks for the questions. I think there are a number of questions in there, and I think if I answered them comprehensively, we would probably be on the call all night. Just in terms of summary, I think if we look at the work that we are doing with the companies that we are working with on the digital side, I think increasingly, we are looking at comprehensive digital twin and digital thread initiatives that extend beyond PLM, certainly at ALM and into manufacturing executio n systems and ERP systems. One of the things that I think has really defined the difference that matters that we represent is the ability to be able to integrate those platforms in a way that is aligned and required by the industry and the companies that we are working with. We certainly see that analysis and simulation is a key component of that in some of our most recent implementations of profiles. The value that can be crystallized if you can get the integration right and you can align that to an optim ized product development process. As far as the relationships with the chip manufacturers, they are relationships that we are very excited about. | 12 I referenced that the industry is going through a transition from a supply chain that was somewhat vertical and controlled by the OEM to a horizontal ecosystem that is somewhat dependent upon the contribution from multiple players. I think partnerships and alliances are going to define the industry going forward. We are very excited about being able to really form a meaningful relationship with the type of companies that we believe will be a major player. Obviously, Intel and ARM are major players today, but I think the strategies and the commitment that they are making to the mobility sector certainly gives us confidence that they are going to grow their influence. By association, we expect to make a big contribution towards their plans.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Kshitij Saraf from Tusk Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good evening. Congratulations on the consistency in the performance. My first question is on the partnership. We have ARM as a partner and we have Intel as a partner. With Intel, we primarily intend to focus on the APAC and with ARM in the European region. Is that understanding correct?
No. The solutions that we're looking to deploy, we will take to the markets globally, but specifically in Asia Pacific. We have agreed to work with Intel on a joint go -to-market proposition that will be focused upon Southeast Asia and specifically China. That's an extension of the technical partnership that we're celebrating today.
Okay. The Tata Group overall announced a collaboration with NVIDIA for the drive platform with relation to 2026 -27 launches. Would Tata Technologies play a role in that whole piece?
We're not at liberty because of confidentiality agreements to share specifics of what we're doing for different customers. Rest assured, with regard to JLR and TML, we're involved in all aspects of their product development process. When announcements of that type are made, you can have confidence that Tata Technologies is involved.
Got it. That's very helpful. Lastly, on the client pyramid and the mining effort, how is the pipeline for the large deals shaping up? How does it work for you guys? Does it so happen that the 1 -250-odd-million bracket engagements, they become into a more holistic sort of end-to-end solution? Or does it start | 13 from a large contract when from a new customer? Any light there would be really helpful.
I think the architecture and the specifics of large deals vary from customer - to-customer engagement to engagement. What I will say is that we are targeting large deals both in terms of our hunting activities and in terms of the relationships that we have with our existing customers. One of the things that we've been focusing on is proactive architecting of large propositions that address the unmet needs of our customers. That investment and that capability that we are building is in part what's informed progress that we're making on the large deal front.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Karan Uppal from Phillip Capital India. Please go ahead.
Yes, thanks for the opportunity. So, Warren, the first question is on EVs. We have seen some bit of a customer adoption which has slowed down in EVs in the US and Europe due to multiple reasons. We have a very strong success in the EV segment. Will it have any impact on our business due to this?
That's a great question and a question that we've been asked multiple times since the statements from companies like GM and Ford and to a lesser extent, the likes of Toy ota. Our view is that the pendulum swing has been affected within the automotive industry in terms of the move to alternative propulsion systems. All of the projects that we are currently involved with from a product development perspective, almost all of the projects have some form of electrification. And if you look at where the industry is investing, we are quite confident that the thrust towards the skill sets and capabilities that we have will not only continue, but it will sustain through the extended period over the next 5 to 10 years. I think that there are some specific things that are influencing the North American market. I think that there is concerns about the change in the White House at the end of the year and the impact that that will have on the Inflation Reduction Act. And there may be things like that that will play out in different parts of the world. And I think that could have an impact on demand and the number of units that are sold. | 14 But I do not believe that it's going to impact the in vestment in new product. We are typically, when we are engaged to develop product for our customers, we're investing in what will define the competitive position of our customers in 3- and 4-years’ time. And we do not see at the moment any compromise or slowdown in the demand that we've been building our thesis around for the last 3 to 4 years.
Okay. Thanks a lot for the detailed answer. The second question is regarding the services segment. So, in services, we have seen a growth rate of close to double digits in this quarter and in H1 it was around 15. So, considering the drag from VinFast, how should we think about the growth in services segment for FY '25?
As I said before, I think that the transition from engineering to launch support, it impacted Q3. We expect further runoff in Q4. And so, growth will taper. But we'll be largely through it come the end of February, March time frame. And so, as we go into FY '25, the base will be solid and we expect to continue the growth trajectory that we've been on for the last 3 years. So, we're extremely bullish about next year. And we anticipated what's happened at VinFast. We've planned and we've prepared for it. So, this is not a surprise.
Okay. And last question is on margins. So, the margins have seen a very smart expansion over the last 3 years. And in this quarter also, we have seen a margin expansion. So, from a medium-term perspective, how are you thinking about margins? Are they optimized or do you think there's still room for expansion going right?
I'll let Savitha take that one.
Yes, thanks for the question. You're right. I think there's been a lot of concerted effort to look at improving our cost base and our operational efficiencies. And the result of that is what you've seen as part of our margin expansion story, aided of course by growth that we've enjoyed as well. And if you look at within the industry, one would say that our peers of similar size tend to operate at the same le vel that we are at right now, somewhere between 18% to 18.5%. And that's the band that at this point, we want to consistently be able to deliver. And as we continue to grow and scale our business, the North Star in the medium to long term would be to try and build another 200 to 250 basis point on top of this level. | 15 And that's the kind of goalpost we'll try and move the business towards.
Any timeline you're looking at for these 200 to 250 bps expansions?
Sorry, could you repeat your question?
I'm saying any timeline you're looking at for these 200 to 250 bps expansions, maybe over the next one year, two years?
At this point in time, I'm afraid we won't be able to put a specific timeline on it. But as the business scales, one should be able to see benefits of that flowing through to margins, through both operating leverage and efficiency.
Okay, thanks a lot. And all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish T from JM Mutual Funds. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity. So we do understand that we also have an engagement with Airbus. So as far as the recent development is concerned, Airbus and Tata will be manufacturing H125 single engine helicopters, again, based out of Gujarat facility. So if you could help us understand our engagement, the entire scheme of things, you said that we are involved with Tata Motors and JLR in almost every aspect. So would it be fair to assume that as far as Airbus and Tata group contracts are concerned, to be there spread out across pretty nicely?
Again, I'm not at liberty to confirm the specifics of the engagement that we have with TASL or Ai rbus. But what I will say is that we were accredited by Airbus some 18 months ago. We're now part of their EMES cube supply program. That program is a program that supports over EUR2 billion of annualized outsourced spend. And increasingly, that spend is c oming to India. We are the only accredited Tata Group engineering service provider. The relationship between Airbus and the Tata group continues to grow, not just with the C295 engagement with TASL, but also through the investment that Air India have made in terms of a new aircraft that will be coming into the fleet in the next couple of years. | 16 And we believe that the tailwinds associated with that partnership will provide significant opportunity for Tata Technology. So we're excited about the relationship with Airbus. We've invested in opening up facilities in Toulouse and Hamburg. We've had a longstanding relationship with TASL. We have a relationship with Air India. And we expect to continue to support all of those organizations as we build out our aerospace proposition in the future.
And would we have a similar engagement with Boeing as well?
We've worked with Boeing for many, many years. I worked in the 90s with -- through the partnership that we have with Dassault Systems on th e first digital aircraft, the 777. We were also a major supplier to their PLM initiatives in and around the 787. We have a number of technical engagements with Boeing at the moment and are in discussions with regard to scaling that and making that relation ship into something that's meaningful to both organizations. So we do have ambitions to build out our partnership with Boeing.
This is helpful. And lastly, our proportion of services business and the technology business to our overall revenues. So 80% of the revenues coming from services part, so that should remain stable or you envisage a higher percentage contribution as we go ahead into the years?
I think our ambitions are to scale the services business at a faster rate than the technology solutions business. The technology solutions business is important to us because it helps us maintain the relationship with the technology vendors that provide the technology stack on which manufacturing companies do business. And so it's important in terms of revenue, but it's more important in terms of the strategic contribution that it makes to our business. So our ambitions in terms of growth for technology solutions is somewhat lesser than the ambitions that we have for our services business.
Yes, this is very helpful. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Kshitij Saraf from Tusk Investments. Please go ahead. | 17
Yes, thank you again. If I could just chip in with one more que stion. We have 80 odd% of revenues within services segment from the auto industry. So going forward, how do we see this mix shifting because we have aerospace and the tailwinds there of. And there's a mention of helping the world farm as well. So in context of that is industrial heavy machinery and any sort of work that you're doing, you could share what's building in the pipeline and what sort of capabilities are really helpful.
Yes, it's a great, great question. And I think just in terms of how we are looking at the industry diversification in the business, we continue at our heart to focus upon the mobility sector. We are recognized by Zinnov as the number one automotive engineering service provider in India. And I think our proposition, ou r full vehicle, our full turnkey capabilities that we have in automotive that extend beyond mechanical into embedded electronics and software defined vehicles. I think that proposition continues to differentiate ourselves and by association represents significant opportunity. And we want to harvest that opportunity. So we're going to stay focused upon automotive. But aerospace is a business that it represents a much smaller base. And so in percentage terms, given the relationship that we've established with Airbus specifically, and given the investments that the group is making, we expect the growth rate of aerospace to extend and exceed the growth in automotive. And with transport, construction, and heavy machinery, typically that industry lags automotive by three to four years. And so the move to electrification, connected, autonomous and shared, we're starting to see that in the farm equipment and the construction equipment space. And many of the skills and experiences that we've capitalized in automotive are directly fungible to the opportunity that that vertical represents. So we certainly see that the aerospace transport, construction, and heavy machinery in three to five years' time will likely make up a bigger percentage of our services mix than they do today. But that continues to -- But I would continue to reinforce that we are not going to be diverted from the material and the sizable opportunity that we continue to see in automotive.
Thank you. All the best. Congratulations.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Girish Pai from Nirmal Bang Equities Private Limited. Please go ahead. | 18
Yes, thanks for the opportunity. Warren, you mentioned that FY25 is going to see robust growth on the one hand, whereas you're saying that VinFast, which is probably the largest kind of customer, which constituted almost like 20%- 25% of revenues in FY23, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know the number for FY24, will wind down by 4Q. So what is going to replace that in FY25 and still deliver robust growth?
Again, great question. And so in terms of our business plan and expectations for next year we are working with our automotive customers on the move to electrification and the move to connected and software -defined vehicles. And increasingly, we are seeing a shift of investment from mechanical systems into the new tech areas. And that's why we've invested very heavily in terms of capacity in those areas, and also in terms of capability. And that's why the partnerships with Agratas, the partnerships with Intel, and the partnerships with Arm are so important. And so our expectations for growth next year are informed by order book and informed by pipeline in and around those vectors. We have also seen with aerospace that we will significantly improve the contribution from Airbus as a customer. We were empanelled 18 months ago. We have gone through the accreditation process at Airbus. Airbus is a very regulated company. And so we've had to demonstrate compliance in multiple areas. We've opened offices in Toulouse and Hamburg. And during that time, we've built up a sizable order book, and we expect to discharge that next year. So the order book and trust book that we've built in automotive together with the pipeline and the expectations that we have in and around accounts like Airbus are really inspiring the confidence that we have about the next fisca l year.
Okay. My second question, Warren, in one of your media interviews, I think prior to the IPO, you mentioned that the exposure to the Tata group, not just Tata Motors and JLR, was to the extent of almost 43%, if I'm not mistaken. And you made a point that, that is up. So is it going to come from Tata Motors, JLR or some other entities within the Tata group?
Yes, I would distinguish the Tata Motors group from other Tata group companies. Agratas is a subsidiary of Tata Suns, not the Tata Motors group. In terms of percentages last year, Tata Motors and JLR, at an aggregate revenue level, represented less than 33%. Because of the confidence that both of | 19 those organizations have given their recent success, they've increased capex over the last 12 months. And that capex investment, and these are public domain numbers, that capex investment is expected to rise somewhat exponentially. And so we clearly want to harvest that opportunity. And so we are bullish about the growth at Tata Motors and JLR. And as a result, in the short term, we expect the percentage contribution from the Tata Motors group to spike up a little bit. But I think medium to long term, the trend that we've been on for the last 10 years is likely to continue. And I c ertainly would expect in three to five years' time, the contribution from Tata Motors group to diminish in percentage term because of the growth that we see outside of the group. Now, typically within the group, in the past, we've worked with organizations like Tata Steel, we've worked with TASL, and we've worked with Air India. And we'll continue to cultivate independent relationships with those organizations. But the partnership that I guess I'm most excited about at the moment is the partnership with Agr atas. The group is making a major investment in gigafactories. There will be a need for pack engineering and pack design capabilities. We will have the opportunity to partner with them in terms of industrializing the plants in Gujarat and in the UK, and i n deploying the digital tools that will enable the development of a product and the optimization of how they run the operations and specifically drive the smart manufacturing solutions into the gigafactory. So very, very excited about the partnership that we've announced today and the potential that augurs in the future. As I said in my opening comments, it really extends upstream the Tata Technologies capabilities. Traditionally, we've taken responsibility for systems integration of batteries and battery m anagement systems. And this partnership will afford us the opportunity to build and cultivate capabilities in and around the engineering and the design and the development of batteries, not just for the automotive industry, but also for the two -wheeler and the three-wheeler space, and also non -mobility products that require batteries in the future.
My last question is with regard to what you're seeing in the pipeline, the size of orders. The largest order would be of what size? Would it be somew here around 100 million, 250 million or 500 million? What is the approximate size of the largest order that you see in your pipeline? | 20
All that I will say as far as order book and pipeline is concerned is that we are confident that the order book and the pipeline will support the ambitions that we have for growth next year. We don't disclose specific customer order book information and we don't disclose the aggregate order book information. I would just say again that we are confident that we have a sufficient platform and sufficient opportunity to realize the type of growth that's expected of this sector.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that was the last question of our question -and-answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Lohia for closing comments.
Thank you everyone for joining us on the call today. We hope that we've been able to answer most of your questions. If there are any further questions, please do get in touch with our investor relations team and we will be happy to answer all your questions. Goodbye from all of us here at the management team.
Thank you. On behalf of Tata Technologies, that concludes this conf erence. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.