We'll take a first question from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial.

Congratulations on...

I'm sorry, Mr. Kumar, may I request you to use your handset mode, please?

Yes. Just one minute. I hope I'm audible now?

Yes, please go ahead.

Warren, Savitha, congratulations on good execution. My first question is on VinFast. Ex of VinFast, we have grown 10%. I just wanted to understand whether this is -- and still, overall growth has been kind of flattish, completely offsetting the decline in VinFast. So is it just a coincidence or in a way, it's by design as the resources that are being released from the VinFast projects are being deployed in some of the other programs. And the reason why I'm asking this is the implication once the VinFast runoff is over, does it mean that the growth -- headline growth will start looking that much better? Or it would be much more subdued than what we can foresee now?

Well, thanks for the question, Abhishek. And I think the question is a fair one, given the circumstances that we've grappled with over the course of the last 6 months. The relationship with VinFast has been a really important part of the development that we've realized in terms of the full breadth and depth of our full-vehicle capabilities. | 13 Not only have we developed the 2 SUVs that we were directly responsible for, but we also have developed an electrical architecture and a connected architecture that is informed for vehicles. So we're very proud of what we've done there. We're very proud of the contribution that we've made to the development of VinFast. But like most new energy vehicle companies, when they develop a portfolio of products, they shift their focus to building them and generating demand for them. And that's exactly what's happening at VinFast. The focus that they have right now is ramping up their production capabilities in Haiphong, in preparing additional capacity in North Carolina and also here in India and shipping product to consumers. And so we anticipated this some 12 months ago. We worked on aligning pipeline with the capability that we knew was coming off. And we've been able to navigate the material transition in terms of head count from VinFast to other customers. I think your insight is spot on. I think once we get through this current quarter, we will be largely through the complete decoupling of the work that we've done on the 2 projects that we've been responsible for. And we certainly expect growth then to pick up. We have entered the year with a very strong pipeline. We are expecting an uptick, as I mentioned, in terms of large deal conversions this quarter. And we certainly expect that will inform a very strong set of growth numbers as we transition through the year.

Okay. Maybe my next question is on demand in general outside of VinFast. We've heard EV slowdown globally, et cetera. How much of that is impacting our programs on the EV -- more on the core engineering side, less on the SUV side. Is there any impact at all that we see in demand? | 14

Yes. Frankly, we're not seeing any drop -off in demand. The transition away from conventional IC propulsion systems to electric vehicles is very much the direction that the industry is taking and the fortunes of individual companies is being influenced by the tapering of the sales cycles. But my observation, my point of view is that much of that is being driven by the fact that certainly, Western OEMs do not have low-cost EVs to be able to sell. And so, what we're seeing is that they're doubling down on building out the portfolio and resisting the threat and the technology gap that they see between themselves and the Chinese OEMs. So for us on the engineering and new product development side of things, those market dynamics are driving tailwinds that we are intersecting with.

We'll take the next question from the line of Nitin Sharma from MC Pro Research.

Firstly, can you please quantify the total deal win in the quarter? How much was the change on Q-on-Q or Y-O-Y basis?

We don't share those details and by association, we don't share guidance going forward. But what I can say is that deal conversions was robust and in line with our expectations. And the commentary that we've effected in terms of confidence in fiscal 2025 is informed by that. So we don't see any drop-off in demand. And not only are we targeting deal wins with our existing customers, we're also taking full advantage of the halo effect associated with the BMW deal and leveraging that to generate interest from new logos. So, we remain confident about this fiscal year and the productivity of our sales teams continues to be at a very high level. | 15

Okay. And secondly, is it possible for you to provide some colour on how was the performance of the product and education subsegments? And also, can you please repeat the utilization in FY '24?

In terms of the Technology Solutions division of our business, we saw growth in education. Products was relatively flat. But the product business is a seasonal business. We typically see growth in Q3 and then there is typically a strong start to the calendar year. So that's played out in fiscal '24 in the same way that it has in previous years. And one of the things that we saw last year was very predictable growth in education sequentially throughout the year. Savitha referenced in her comments, in Q4 of FY '23, almost 2/3 of the education business for FY '23 was discharged in the fourth quarter. And so what we've done is we've worked hard to smooth that out throughout the fiscal year and that's played out. And we saw incremental growth in education, Q3 to Q4, but that was very much along the lines of what we had budgeted and what we planned for.

And on the utilization levels, I missed that on your initial commentary.

Currently, we have utilization in excess of about 85%, 86%. And around that is where we believe the normalized levels would be for us at a global level.

We'll take a next question from the line of Jatin Kalra from Bank of America.

My first question, just an extension on the earlier question asked on the EBIT. The hybrid versus electric debate keeps coming up I wanted to check if it is fair to assume that, if at all, there is a significant shift happening from electric to hybrid, wou ld it be largely net neutral event for you? Is the research intensity same in both kinds?

Yes, great question and good to hear your voice again. As far as we are concerned, if you look at the portfolio of vehicles that we've delivered for our | 16 customers, it encompasses the various propulsion options that are available to what we have. If you take the work that we did for Polestar when Volvo launched that particular brand. We did the Polestar 1. That was a plug -in hybrid, a very sophisticated hal o product for Volvo that was used to launch the brand. Not only was it a sophisticated plug -in hybrid proposition, but it also had a very complex carbon fiber upper structure that we engineered and developed in Europe, the U.K. and India, and we helped Volvo launch in China. So that's a technology that we understand very well. We are seeing with the North Americans and some of the Europeans that want to hedge their bets as far as full EVs are concerned, we are starting to see renewed interest in a much more balanced approach to the transition that we're seeing overall in the industry. But for us, we're as excited about working on plug-in hybrids as we are on fully electric vehicles.

Great. That was really helpful. My second question, on the services business, because there is a big delta in your Y -O-Y profile at VinFast and ex -VinFast, could you provide a bit more colour on the Y-o-Y growth cadence for the next few quarters; does it pick up uniformly? Have you bottomed in Q4? Or do you expect to see another slower quarter on Y-O-Y basis and then see big jumps in Q2, Q3 as you move forward?

What I can say is that the material transition of VinFast has played out in Q3 and Q4. There is a slight overhang that we'll work through in the current quarter. And then for all intents and purposes, we will be through the transition. And the growth rates that I referenced and Savitha referenced will inform, I think, the trajectory beyond that. But we don't provide specific guidance. So, I'm not going to give you any specific numbers. But I'm confident about the momentum that we've establish ed. We don't see any drop in demand. And so we expect fiscal year '25 to be a good year.

Understood. Got it. Can I slip in one more, if that's allowed? | 17

Go ahead.

Yes. So I understood that you're not saying anything on the BMW deal. But in these kinds of JVs, is there a practice to involve a buyout clause by the enterprise on the JV after some time? Is that something that one should keep account of?

Yes. We're not at liberty to make any comments about the specifics of the JV at this stage. We certainly -- once we've gotten through regulatory approval, we'll provide more colour on what we can expect and what the market can expect from that deal. But one of the things that I'll just reinforce is that, that deal is not only an important deal for Tata Technologies. It's a really important deal for the Indian engineering services sector. BMW is a very discerning customer, and they are coming into India at scale. They're coming into India for automotive software and also digital technologies that will help them optimize the way in which they run their enterprise. And I think it will send a signal to other OEMs that are not yet fully vested in this region. And we are very, very excited about what it means, not just for us, but again, the legitimizing of the engineering services market here in this country.

We'll take our next question from the line of Moez Chandani from AMBIT Capital.

I wanted to understand what percentage of your revenue contribution ex - VinFast has been driven by your anchor clients versus your non -anchor clients? And also on a related note, is there any particular client or a project that you would like to call out that has helped you scale up your and replace of VinFast revenues so strongly in Q4 as well as Q3?

I think the short answer to your first question is the growth has been fairly diversified outside of the VinFast runoff. And therefore, both anchor as | 18 well as some of our key and focus accounts outside of the anchor accounts have broadly grown anywhere between 25% to 30% during the fiscal year on a year-on-year basis. So, it's been a fairly broad-based growth would be my response. Do you want to take the second one, Warren?

Can you help me with the second question?

Sure. Is there any particular client that you'd like to call out where you've been able to scale up so fast, so as to replace these revenues from VinFast?

Just to reinforce what Savitha said, there's no 1 project or 1 customer that has really provided the lion's share of support for the growth that we've seen. It's really been very broad -based. And for me, that's been one of the most encouraging things. And not only are we seeing it in automotive, we're also seeing it outside of automotive and specifically in aerospace. I signalled in January that we were pleased that we were now starting to discharge the sizable order book that we've built at Airbus. We've seen that play out in the fourth quarter and that's a relationship that we are very excited about, not just in FY '25, but beyond that. We are very much ensconced now in the EMES3 supplier program. We've been through the accreditations. We've established the Nexus in the Toulouse and Hamburg, and we are really well positioned to take advantage of the support and sponsorship that we are getting from Airbus. We're also, again, beneficiaries of the big bets that the group is making. We've certainly provided support at JLR and TML for the ongoing investments that they are making in their portfolio. But one of the things that we announced in January was the relationship, the partnership with Agratas, and that's allowed us to move upstream in terms of the coverage of the EV value chain, particularly as it pertains to pack design, and we've seen a material contribution from that partnership in the fourth quarter. | 19

Okay. My second question was on the education sector. So you had a lot of projects with Telangana, UP and a few other states. So how long are these projects? And when do you expect to start to see those projects wind down for Tata Tech?

Well, those projects are typically multiyear projects. They typically are our projects that are managed in phases. So, for instance, the award that we received in Telangana, providing that we execute well, we would expect to build upon that. The order book for our education business continues to grow. And so we have visibility and confidence that we will see year -on-year improvement in that business, not just in FY '25, but beyond.

Sure. But is there a timeline in terms of the number of years that these projects are?

Typically, the relationships extend through 10 years. The lion's share of the work is in the first couple of years. But then there's a services relationship that we will maintain somewhat indefinitely. And that's the nature of the value proposition that we represent. There are centers that we are deploying, but we are also deploying our e-learning platform and providing training services to support the investment in talent that the ITIs themselves are making.

The next question is from the line of Bhavik Mehta from JPMorgan.

A couple of questions. Firstly, if I look at the head count over the past couple of quarters, it has not gone up much. Now I understand this could be because you're redeploying the people from VinFast project to other projects. But given that VinFast is bo ttom out next quarter, and the demand still remains strong in terms of these wins and pipeline, how should we think about head count growth over the next 2 quarters?

Yes. I think good question, Bhavik. I think if you look at what we've done as far as head count is concerned in Q3 and in Q4, we've calibrated to | 20 accommodate the runoff that we've seen at VinFast. So your observation, I think, is aligned with what went on. Also, at the beginning of the calendar year, typically, that's a relatively slow period as far as large deals are concerned. And so again, we plan our recruitment activities and our onboarding activities to reflect that. We are ramping up as far as recruitment is concerned right now, and we certainly expect the capacity requirements that our growth will position on us to be satisfied as we take full advantage of the teams that we are bringing in. We are also, in addition to adding headcount, and I've referenced this in the past, we've made significant investments in our internal university, what we brand and refer to as TechVarsity. And we made reference to the reskilling activities in and around GenAI in our opening comments. That university trained and reskilled over 8,500 people last year. And so, it's a capability, which we believe truly differentiates us in the engineering services sector. So we are investing in talent in terms of increasing headcount, but we're also investing in talent in terms of aligning the skills and capabilities with the demand that the market is imposing upon us.

Okay. Got it. The second question is on margins. How should we think about margins for FY '25? Are we trying to maintain margins in that ballpark of 18.5% EBITDA? Or is there a scope for some expansion?

One of the things that I'll do is I'm going to use that question to introduce Sukanya. I'm delighted -- I was delighted last quarter. to confirm the appointment of Sukanya as our COO. Sukanya joins us after over 3 decades at TCS and was part of the leadership team that saw TCS scale to the size and to the capabilities that it has. And we are certainly looking to leverage the experience and the understanding and the insights that Sukanya has. We are relatively modest in terms of our margin exp ectation improvements for the | 21 year. But Sukanya, perhaps you could just profile for us some of the areas that we're doubling down on in terms of improvements that we expect to realize in fiscal 2025.

Yes. Thank you, Warren, and hello, everyone. While we don't give any guidance on the margin itself, but I think overall, we are at the range that we want to operate at. But given the focus on sustaining and improving on margins, I think we are looking at m ultiple levers. One is the efficiency that we want to drive around the overall leverage that we want to have in being able to deliver from India for our global customers. We also are looking at how we can improve our pricing based on the newer engagements that we do in embedded, SDV, cybersecurity, GenAI. So I think pricing is going to be an important lever as well. And Savitha also alluded to the fact that some of the efficiency drivers that we are looking at in terms of utilization as we ramp-up on a large transformation program, how do we very quickly re skill some of these using our TechVarsity and then are able to efficiently redeploy our people globally. So, I think some of these are going to be important levers that will pan out for us in the coming quarters and we definitely have that higher on our radar.

We'll take our next question from the line of Rajiv Berlia from Citigroup.

I just want to understand the performance of aerospace vertical in 4Q and the outlook for the same for FY '25? And the second question is the deal which you had announced in the last quarter, the Agratas deal, what is the status of the deal? And by when do we expect the deal to start ramping up for Tata Technologies?

Okay. As far as aerospace is concerned, Rajiv, we have invested very heavily in the infrastructure to support Airbus. And I discussed in January, the fact that in the second half of last year, we began discharging the order book that | 22 we have built at Airbus. What I can say is that we doubled our revenues at Airbus in Q4 from a relatively small base in Q3. And that momentum is something that we expect to sustain in the current fiscal year. So, we are very bullish about the Airbus relationship. But we're also bullish about the overall aerospace market. If you look at the expectations that is being imposed upon the industry, there's currently about 23,000 productive aircraft in use today that's expected to double in the next 15 to 20 years. And so we're working with Airbus on things like manufacturing throughput. We have relatively mature discussions with other OEMs and the influence that the Tata Group is starting to have on aerospace, particularly in the context of the aircraft; it's buyin g, the partnerships that it's establishing on both the commercial and on the defence side of the aerospace market is providing significant opportunity for us. So very excited about aerospace. And then we've shared in the past that in the next 3 to 5 years, we expect the sort of 90% bias that we have to automotive at the moment to reset in and around about a 20% contribution from aerospace and industrial heavy machinery. As far as Agratas is concerned, we really have been involved in that organization since its inception. We are providing support for pack design as Agratas looks to confirm its anchor relationships with a couple of targeted OEMs. So we're involved with that in the U.K. and here in India, we are working on the deployment of enterprise IT solutions as they look to build the digital backbone that will inform how they run their organization. And we're also in the planning stages at the moment on the industriali zation of the 2 giga factories, one in Gujarat and the other in the southwest of the UK. So that relationship has already established scale, and we expect to continue to build upon that in the coming quarters and the coming years.

Last question from my side. You have talked about GenAI. Can you talk about some of the proof of concepts that you are seeing in GenAI and what are the sizes of these proof of concepts as of now? | 23

I'll talk a little bit about projects that I didn't reference in my opening comments. And then Sukanya, if there's any additional comments that you want to reinforce then please share. One of the things that I didn't share in my opening comments, I referen ced what we were doing with a German OEM. I referenced what we were doing here in India as far as a factory Copilot solution and the interventions that we're affecting in terms of quality. But one of the things that we're also doing for another OEM is that we are building and deploying a sales assist capability. And what that sales assist capability does is support salespeople in the dealerships to compare and contrast the products that they are looking to position for sale with competitive products and with intelligence that relates to some of the technical specifications that underpin a particular vehicle. And that is something that is complementing the training interventions that are being planned for the dealership. So, we are not just looking at the traditional engineering or product development and manufactu ring value chain, we're looking to extend the services that we deploy and the applications that we build into the customer experience arena.

Yes. The only other thing that I would like to add is that I think even though it is in very early stages, like Warren mentioned in his opening remarks in terms of manufacturing industry adopting it. But I think we have moved from initial POCs to realize i ndustry use cases where we are seeing a lot of uptick from our customers, and that is reinforcing our investments that we are making in the GenAI space.

We'll take our next question from the line of Karan Uppal from PhillipCapital India.

Two questions from my side. So firstly, Warren, on the outlook on JLR. So you were very bullish on JLR account regarding their EV transition at the time of the IPO. What's the outlook on this account at this point of time? And a related | 24 question to that is Tata Tech the only company who was going to benefit because of JLR EV transition? And what kind of work is being outsourced to Tata Tech versus being done in JLR's in-house R&D facility?

Well, I'll qualify my response by saying we are bound by confidentiality agreements with most of our customers. And certainly, at JLR, I can speak about some things, but I can't speak about the specifics of the detailed engagements that we are involved wit h. But I think if you have followed the fortunes of JLR over the last couple of years, you'll see that they've been through the transformation that was initiated in 2019. They've embraced this modern luxury strategy. They've resized the orga nization to support a breakeven point at about 300,000 units. And they've invested in a portfolio of products for the Jaguar brand that we'll see that brand being relaunched as a pure battery electric vehicle brand in the future. The investments that they've made in the transition and the work that they've undertaken to come out of the semiconductor challenge, for instance, has really propelled JLR through the last couple of years to a level of performance that for them is record-breaking. And I think that, that's informing confidence. And that has driven an increase in the CapEx that has certainly benefited the partnership between Tata Technologies and JLR. Now JLR has an ecosystem of partners. There are other Tata Group companies that provide services and support at JLR, there are also organizations outside of the group that provides support for JLR. And I think right now, most of the incumbent partners have seen an increase in business as a result of the improved market position of JLR and the confidence that they have in their current portfolio and the investments that they are making in next-generation vehicles.

Okay. Second question is on ICE to EV opportunity. So you have worked with Tata Motors in a couple of its models transitioning from ICE to EV. So are you | 25 seeing similar kind of deals from other OEMs? Do you think that's a very big opportunity? Anything in the pipeline you can share?

I think we are seeing the transition away from internal combustion engines. We're seeing that transition manifest itself in multiple ways. We referenced before plug-in hybrids. Some companies are jumping straight into a full BEV platform. And others are st aging that transition in the same way that Tata Motors have by changing the ICE platform and through the changes, accommodating an electric propulsion system. We're seeing demand across all of those segments, and we're working not just inside of the group with Tata Motors and JLR in those areas, we're working outside of the group as well. And I think that's a testament to the breadth and depth of capabilities that we represent. When we engage with our customers, we're not positioning a proposition in a single area. We are aligned with the various options that they have to improve their competitive position.

We'll take one last question from the line of Bharat Sheth from Quest Investment.

Sir, from a medium perspective, if we understand, how do we really have a strategy to leverage our engineering R&D capability in other areas like Auto is the one, then second is aerospace that we have, other mobility as well as industrial, health care side and services in the education. So, first is, how big is the opportunity that you are seeing? And what is really challenge, I mean, to grab those opportunities?

I think what I would say as far as new technologies are concerned, if I understand the question correctly, the clock speed of technology change is accelerating. And every engineer that is coming into the marketplace now is having to embrace this lifelong l earning challenge. And that's why we have invested in TechVarsity. That's why we've invested in our i GET IT learning | 26 platform. That platform is used by more than 50,000 engineers globally outside of our company. So, it has content that's relevant for the industry, and we're certainly leveraging that to develop the type of skill sets that are required of the industries and the customers that we support. That investment and that understanding of what it takes to rescale is informing the education proposition that we are driving into the public and the private sectors. The manufacturing industry is going through a massive change. The automotive industry is going through a change now that we've not seen in the last 120 years. And so the traditional skills whilst still relevant, are needing to be complemented with next -generation skills. And that's what we are building our proposition around. The relationship here in India with the public sector is providing us with business va lue that we are leveraging to further invest in content for our e -learning platform, and we are taking that to individual engineers and also to manufacturing enterprises to further extend our education proposition and build our business in a way that's aligned with the growth expectations that we've got for the company.

Further to that question...

Yes. Go ahead.

Mr. Sheth. Please go ahead.

Further to that question, which is the next industry that you are seeing a mindset changing for outsourcing, like in Auto and Aerospace, it took several years to outsource from the in-house. So where do we see a kind of a mindset for other industry is playing out?

Well, this is my point of view. So, it's not -- it's our perspective. Our perspective is that as the need for new technology, continues to grow and | 27 dominate this market, we think that many of our customers will likely shrink their focus and will protect and invest in the things that differentiate them and inform their unique position in the market. And increasingly, they will complement their fixed cost investment in engineering with relationships with organizations like ourselves. And so we think that the tailwinds that we've leveraged to drive growth in the recent past will continue to inform the momentum that we expect to leverage in the future. So that mindset that you referred to, I think is really starting to drive a lot of the decision-making throughout the market. And I think that's why you see consistently not just with our company, but across the sector, type of growth rates that we are seeing, and we are expecting to continue.

Thank you. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vijay Lohia for closing comments. Over to you.

Thank you, everyone, for joining us on today's call. We hope that we've been able to answer most of your questions. If there are any further questions, please do get in touch with our Investor Relations team, and we'll be happy to answer all your questions . Goodbye from all of us here at the management team. Thank you. Have a good weekend.

On behalf of Tata Technologies, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.