UltraTech Cement Limited analyst Q&A

Thank you. The first question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.

Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. The first question is on other expenses. So like doesn't Q2 has higher other expenses which we saw and Q3 simply witnesses a drop at this time. That drop is not visible. First thing I wanted to highlight was -- I wanted to check, was there any one-off in other expenses?

So it's not a one -off, but when we saw the slowdown -- I should say slow down, or lukewarm response in the markets during October, November, we did some pre-emptive or early preponement of some maintenance costs, which would have become part of the overall cost during this quarter.

Okay. So recently, this campaign has also been launched with Shahrukh Khan, of course. Congratulations on that, but that is already in the P&L or Q3? Or will that come?

Sorry, who is Shahrukh Khan? Yes. Obviously, we will book their expenses. We don't keep anything for a later date.

Okay, okay. And just lastly, I see the slide on the capacity commissioning schedule. Like what will be the clinker capacity addition in Phase 3? And where will you go on total clinker capacity at the end Phase 3?

I think I had already mentioned last time, 10 million to 12 million tons, but not getting into details on clinker capacity, but 10 million to 12 million tons. So we will always be clinker backed, that is most important aspect. Just one second, Jhanwarji wants to speak .

Yes. See, the first of all, Atul has already just said that our all capacities are always clinker backed. Actually, we never put the supply grinding facility and not having the clinker on the back side.

Okay. Sure. I'll come back and thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Navin Sahadeo from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

It's not weak, I wouldn't say weak. But the gains which were there in the quarter were largely surrendered.

Fair. So can we say that the cost price like in January is at least, let's say, 2% or some number, so it's lower than Q3?

Lower than Q3, yes, prices will be currently lower than Q3.

Marginally.

Yes.

Okay. marginally. Fair. And sir, my second question was on your recently incorporated company in Northeast and a very peculiar name to it. So I'm just trying to understand, it seems like something has already firmed up and very soon, we could see either a greenfield expansion or some venture in that state. If you can throw some light on this?

So I will throw some light when I have the torch with me. So sorry, not to -- I don't know why I started joking on the call. But we will come back, Navin, We are making progress on our expansion in the Northeast. It has been long overdue. As per the legal requirements, we need a separate entity with local partnerships, local directors, etcetera. So that has been structured. We will come back with details as and when we are ready.

I mean my only question was, given the peculiarity of the name, I could sense that it could be a greenfield venture because there, you don't have to really go into an auction of a mine as such. If you have land already in place, you can start.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely .

Great. Thank you. So much.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec. Please go ahead.

Sir, a couple of questions. First, sir, you used the word, "we have taken opportunistic bets on fuel." Sir, can you please provide some more color over here? You did indicate on a rupee per k-cal basis for the quarter. If you have taken some nice bets, does it mean it is lower than the prevailing spot prices? How should we look at it?

So Ritesh, let's keep it for the next quarter. Why should I spill the beans right now? I have also mentioned that you will keep seeing our cost curve sliding down continuously. We will reveal the numbers as and when -- at the end of the next quarter.

Okay. If I put the question the other way around, would we have taken...

Okay. Right. So probably I'll try to move to the next question then, sir, you did indicate that the incremental clinker capacity you had earlier indicated at 10 million to 12 million tons. This corresponds to Phase 2 and Phase 3 together?

This was about Phase 3.

Phase 3. And specific corresponding to Phase 2?

14 million.

14 million tons.

Okay. And the incremental announcements which we have detailed, do we -- are we incentive- backed on most of the states? Because I see a few states where...

I'll tell you which places have incentives. So you have Rajasthan, Rajasthan has incentives. Andhra doesn't have. Bihar has. Yes. UP also will have it.

UP has. Tamil Nadu doesn't have?

Punjab is in Phase 2. So Punjab also -- In Phase 3, you would have Rajasthan, UP, Bihar, yes. These states will have incentives.

Okay. So AP doesn't have? I presume Tamil Nadu also would not have, right?

Yes.

Tamil Nadu is very small.

Okay. And sir, when we give a IRR number of 15%, what is the...

We don't take incentives into account.

You don't take incentives into account, okay. That's useful. Okay. And sir, lastly, if you want to just touch upon probably the rationale behind Kesoram, and given we have already announced Phase 2 and three, would there be a motivation to look at further inorganic assets given we have a very strong pipeline already in place?

So, Ritesh, inorganic is always opportunistic and each transaction has to be examined on its fitment with UltraTech given the fact that we are pretty densely present in the country. So each transaction has to be examined on its own merits. Both -- so fundamentally, I have maintained that we are looking for profitable growth opportunity. So it has to give us growth as well as has to be remunerative.

So at the end of the day, it has to be value-accretive actually. Otherwise, there may be a number of opportunities. If it doesn't add value, I don't think it makes sense just to add capacity.

And sir, my question was will there be anything specific that will make us move or motivate us to look at it? So something in Southern India, which is rich in limestone, would it be of interest?

It's not about Southern India. Let me comment about whole of the entire country. So if it's a profitable growth opportunity, that's point number one. You seem to touch upon limestone. Obviously, it has to be limestone-backed.

Okay. Sure. And sir, Kesoram, basically, the motivation to go for Kesoram?

It has good limestone. We can certainly add value to ourselves, to our customers. We can service our customers in a much better way. Markets are very attractive.

And also the good brand, the markets where they are present.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rashi Chopra from Citi Group.

Just on utilization, your utilization was 77% in this quarter. So what are you expecting in the fourth quarter?

Fourth quarter, historically, if you see, I would expect this quarter also to repeat. However, election date -- depends on election date as and when the election dates are announced and the code of conduct sets in. It's very, very confusing to put a number -- to put a finger to a number. As I already mentioned, mid -December onwards, we started seeing demand pick up, and the signs are very good. Still, if I have to put a number, we will definitely cross 80%, 85% for sure.

Okay. And in your opinion, like for the full year, what should the industry demand growth be for cement?

We were looking at close to double digits. So 8%, 9% for is a possibility.

Yes. Anything between 8% to 9%.

Just some bookkeeping. On your trade volumes and blended cement for the quarter?

Trade was 64%.

Blended, around 68%.

And when you're doing a blended coal site, what was the pet coke price? Like last quarter, you would mention the pet coke was $138. This quarter?

$126.

So this should continue to go down?

Yes. That's what the trend looks like.

$126.

Okay. And lastly, on the waste heat recovery, your capacity is 264 megawatts right now. Anything more getting added this year?

Yes, about 26 megawatt.

Some more will come in. One or two more lines will come in.

Sir, what's the total megawatt capacity expected by '24, '25 on waste heat recovery?

About 16 to 20 megawatt additional will get commissioned by the end of March '24.

Okay. And then beyond that in FY'26?

'25 also, we'll have. So we have 5 existing lines under implementation, out of which you will see 16 to 20 megawatts getting commissioned by March. So three lines would have commissioning in the next fiscal year also.

Okay. Sir, just on capex. Sir, just one last thing. I don't really want to discuss the EBITDA per ton for the next quarter. But generally speaking, directionally, prices are basically corrected. I know costs have come down or will come down as well. But I mean, this probably remains like a steady state number, what is reported in the quarter?

Yes. I assume so. I think I'm confident that it's a steady state number.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Indrajit, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Sorry, Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Yes, after the capex, so INR18,000 crores in the two years, how much would be remaining for Phase 3, till Phase 3?

We had total cost of INR13,000 crores, INR12,000 crores, so INR25,000 crores. INR25,000 crores, out of which INR18,000 crores is getting completed. So the balance is there INR6,000 crores -- INR37,000 crores.

And given that not all the capacity -- about 2 million tons of capacity at Kesoram is not clinker- backed, so could we look to realign some of our like organic expansion to support that? Or how do we...

Yes, we are looking at it. I think in the next -- we have plenty of time. So once we are -- get CCI approval, we'll work more closely with them to understand their plans and how we can realign our capacities.

Sure. And sir, last question, on this post -Kesoram, we will be at around 190 -odd million ton capacity, right?

And our target is 200 million by '28. So do we have enough organic opportunities for getting to that additional 10 million tons? Or we'll have to...

Organic, most certainly, most certainly.

Okay. All right. And all those organic, we are still confident it is truly lower than, like, say, $90 to $100 per ton, right?

Absolutely. No doubt about that.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Sir, on -- you based your numbers on kilns with WHRS. And while that you said that currently, we have 44 kilns and by '27 we will have 48 kilns. So are we adding this 25 million tons between Phase one and Phase 2 just across four new lines? I was not clear about that.

Yes, there are four lines -- four greenfield lines getting added.

Of 24 million tons of clinker? Okay.

`Thank you. The next question is from the line of Prateek from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

My first question is on last quarter's demand growth, you said it's around 3%, 4%. Would you have like region-wise distribution of how this growth was?

Very difficult at the moment. We will wait to see numbers from regional players, then it will be better to comment on that.

And your utilization of 77%, how would that be region-wise?

More or less evenly spread, the highest being 80%, 85% and the lowest being 74%, 73%.

Okay. So South the utilizations is half -- I believe the South number would be lower number of on the range. So South utilization for yourself and for the industry has like sustainably moved up? Or is it like we are operating at significantly high?

So we are -- so when we are growing at a pace higher than the industry, our capacity utilizations will also be higher than the industry. That is one. South market has been consolidating and improving continuously. Gone are the days when Southern markets us ed to operate sub -50%. So you are seeing South markets also going up above 70%, for sure.

Okay. And over the next six months, as you concur, like volume growth may like sort of get impacted. How do you see the pricing during this period?

Right. But versus last quarter, when we sort of seen the start of the quarter, we had 5% higher prices all of that roll back. We are sort of having a similar view on pricing we had that time? Or...

My sense is if capacity utilizations in January, March, which has been -- which has precedent, if you go last two, three years, capacity utilizations have been strong, the prices could improve. However, we are heading into election periods. So there might be -- how demand pans out, it remains to be seen.

Sure. And lastly, this INR25,000 crores of capex, you said INR9,000 crores, INR9,000 crores and maybe INR7,000 crores for three years. Is this maintenance capex also included in this?

All in.

Okay. So maintenance included, we have INR25,000 crores spend?

Sorry, sorry. Phase 2 , Phase 3 , yes. So maybe INR1,000 crores or INR2,000 crores on maintenance capex, give or take. And the WHRS also, which is under implementation. But all put together, capex, which I'm seeing this year, we have already crossed about INR6,500 crores for the nine months. So we will very unit as INR9,000 crores on that, which includes both our growth capex as well as routine capex or maintenance capex. This is a trend which we see at least next year, for sure.

Sure. So INR9,000 crores, INR9,000 and next year -- FY'26, we'll have like INR6,000 crores, INR7,000 crores plus?

It will be higher only, not INR7,000 crores, because there will be maintenance capex also.

And in between, there will be like acquisition EV of around INR7,500 crores of...

Yes. Yes, that is coming in. That is coming in. So in my commentary, when I mentioned FY'25 net cash on the balance sheet, I am not taking into account this acquisition, which will bring in a debt of 18 -- INR2,000 crores.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Devesh Agarwal from IIFL Securities. Please go ahead.

Sir, firstly, in terms of cost, you did mention that the cost will continue to slide. But based on our inventories, can you give some sense what would be the decline we can expect in Q4?

We are at $150, no? this quarter. So we are at $150 of consumption this quarter. I would expect 5%, 7% -- 7%, 8% reduction over the next 6 months for sure, it could be higher also.

Okay. And secondly, sir, based on our Kesoram acquisition, you do have some capacity addition plans in waste heat in Southern India. Can there be any rethink or those remain intact?

Okay. And sir, in our RMC business, what would be the margin for the quarter?

In what, RMC business?

Yes, sir.

RMC business generally delivers 3% higher...

4%.

4%, sorry. 4% margin over and above cement.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Satyadeep Jain from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.

Just a couple of questions. One, follow-up to Navin's question. On the foray in Northeast, I just want a clarification. You already have some limestone assets there in Northeast?

Identified, yes.

But not existing assets. Secondly, on Nawalgarh in the Phase 3, we don't see Nawalgarh. So is there some land acquisition....

No, no. There's -- that will come in Phase four. Land acquisition is half of it. Because right now, we are doing Kotputli expansion in Rajasthan, which is part of our Phase 2 , which will get commissioned. And then we will take up further expansion in Rajasthan in Phase four, if I can call it that way.

So land acquisition is still going on there?

Sorry. And Nathdwara expansion, my colleague corrected me, Nathdwara expansion is also happening right now.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Kumar Ravi from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.

Am I audible?

Yes, please.

Sir, could you share the breakup of the pending 2.6 million ton debottlenecking which was due in second half? And also the slag grinding units, which are expected next year?

So slag grinding units, one is in South, one in West Bengal and third one?

Two in Bengal and one in South. And as far as debottlenecking, I think I have corrected the numbers in this presentation as compared to earlier. So once we are through, we will come back with the details on debottlenecking.

Okay, okay. The debottlenecking there are changes and this Burnpur is already an amalgamated end of Q3?

Yes. Burnpur, we had acquired the assets and not the company.

So this has already done, okay.

It's already in our balance sheet.

And also, can you share the Phase 3, you mentioned some 10 million, 12 million ton of clinker additions?

Yes.

Across which -- what would be the region where clinker additions or kilns?

That's happening in the East, North and South.

And what will be the breakup? Because South, we see that you are adding one last, brining six million tons in Andhra and then brownfield 3.7 million tons, which is in, again APCW. So almost 1 million ton addition?

Rajesh, let's focus on cement capacity instead of getting into clinker details.

Okay. And total, you said, is how much, sir?

Total of what?

Total clinker across these three regions would be how much?

Give or take, 12 million tons.

12 million tons, okay. And sir, lastly, Q3 volume numbers for various reasons have been impacted. But in Q4, would you -- is it feasible to see a 10% plus growth. Do you have that capacity in place? Is that a reasonable number you're looking at, 10% plus growth in Q4?

Right now given the weather conditions in North, so North is still not doing full steam. Otherwise, all the other regions are performing well. We should see a good improvement in our Q4 numbers. I don't want to comment on a number which is unnecessarily gi ving directional performance for Q4.

As I mentioned, Rajesh, I don't want to preclude or reach a conclusion on Q4 in this call. We are focusing on Q3 performance.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.

Sir, one data point, what's the premium, sir, for this quarter?

23%.

23%. And second, sir, definitely, as you mentioned that in terms of the demand for fourth quarter, we are looking at it to improve. But overall, if you look at for FY'25 also, will there be some slowdown in the first half and net-net for the full year, will it be fair to say the max we can see a 6%, 6.5% kind of demand growth at industry level in FY'25?

Maybe, I think so. It is a possibility.

But our growth will definitely will be much better than the industry growth.

Yes, yes. We will have higher growth definitely.

Okay. And on the profitability front, sir, if you can repeat what you mentioned, I was not clear. Did you mention that the profitability still have a scope to improve given the cost curve is still going to be on the declining side? Or will it be -- going forward in FY'25, will it be more from the pricing perspective, we can see the profitability to improve?

I didn't comment anything on future profitability. What I said was you could see improvement or reduction in cost of fuel further. It all depends on how volumes play, how other levers of the P&L play out.

The next question is from the line of Patanjali Srinivasan from Sundaram Mutual Fund.

Sir, am I audible?

Yes, please.

Yes, sir. So firstly, congratulations on a good set of numbers. I wanted to know what a gray cement EBITDA per ton would be?

Gray cement EBITDA per ton, we are at INR1,200 per ton. Well, INR1,208 depending upon operating EBITDA, how you calculate operating EBITDA, it would be around INR1,208 per ton.

No, sir. So our India business, when we declare numbers and it includes our white cement, RMC also. So I'm just trying to understand, if gray cement EBITDA would be slightly lower. But because of RMC, it will be a blended number of INR1,208. Is my understanding correct?

Okay. And from a kcal perspective, what would be our cost -- fuel cost for the quarter, sir?

From what perspective?

K-cal.

I already gave it, I think 2.04.

Okay. And where do we see it going in the coming quarters?

Yes, you should have been on the call earlier. I expect....

No, no, I was there. Sorry. Directionally. I just wanted to know how much will it be?.

Directionally it will be reducing. Again, I also mentioned 6% to 8% reduction is a possibility. It could be more, it could be less. I don't have a control on that.

The next question is from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie.

Sir, my first question was on expansion. Like when we acquired Nathdwara, one of the arguments was that we can easily double the capacity. But even in Phase 3, there's only 1.2 million tons coming in Nathdwara and we have hardly added after the acquisition. So what -- and from profitability point of view also, I think in the past, we have highlighted that Nathdwara is fairly profitable. So why are we going so slow on Nathdwara expansion?

So Nathdwara actually what you are talking, 1.2 million is the cement actually. But the clinker is 3.3 million tons. Obviously, the grinding has to take place, not entirely at the sub -site, but in the market.

Right, right. So clinker wise, you're adding Nathdwara? Got it. And sir, secondly, in terms of Phase 1, is it possible to quantify the potential Kesoram offers given you said that one of ...

I missed your question. Repeat, please?

Sir, I'm saying Kesoram. Is it possible to quantify the potential Kesoram has in terms of capacity additions given that was one of the reasons you said for the acquisition?

So whatever we studied their existing location in Karnataka, that definitely has limestone and land available to expand.

Okay. Sir, my last question, like this quarter, if I see nearly 2/3 of your renewable power is coming from wasted recoveries. Out of the 24% 16% is wasted recovery. In 2027, the 60% target that we have, are we seeing the dependence on solar or wind going u p or the mix will be maintained?

Yes, no, no, it will go up.

So solar, we are around 34% out of 60% and 26% would be WHRS.

Sorry, out of -- okay, okay. 34%.

34% would be renewable energy.

No, sorry, sir, I thought it's 60% target by 2025, right?

Total. That is green energy, which includes WHRS also. 85% by 2030, which will be largely delivered by renewable energy.

The next question is from the line of Ritesh Shah from Investec.

Sir, two questions. Sir, first is we have your long -term carbon intensity target of 62%. This includes Scope one reduction of 27% from the baseline and 69% on Scope two. Sir, is there a road map which is there to reduce carbon intensity? I would presume clinker factor would be one of the variables. So when we're looking at Phase 2 and Phase 3, are we looking at this particular variable to shift significantly? That's the first question.

So to answer, yes, clinker factor will be the largest driver for reducing the CO2 emissions. We have a concrete plan in place to reduce clinker factor. New products which are getting added, variants which getting added which helps improve the clinker conversion factor.

Sir, would it be possible to guide any particular clinker factor numbers, say, by FY'26, '27 or say '28, something in interim before 2032?

No, I would not want to reveal that.

Okay. And sir, as you indicate, we will focus on clinker factors, then how should we understand the demand-supply dynamics for fly ash and slag? If you could provide some color over here and specifically on the cost inflation for both this variables.

My sense says that the country will not have any shortage on account of fly and slag availability. Cement industry will not suffer because of that.

Okay. But from a cost inflation standpoint?

On these commodities?

Yes, sir, flyash and slag.

It's a matter of demand and supply. For example, fly ash can vary from zero cost to INR500 per ton plus freight. So it purely is on demand and supply.

Yes. The LC3 is still not -- I would say, the commercialize some pilot scale production has started in the Western world, at least in India, nothing has happened. But yes, it is very much on the radar and we are working on it.

Okay. So we have the product credit. It is just that we have not commercialized. Should we read it that way?

It's not question of product because the product is not so important to produce. But I think the overall, that technology and the scale actually. Because if somebody can produce in, say, 1,000 TPT plant, but it should be scalable to a higher level. And at the same time, the raw material availability is also to be insured, actually at least for 30, 40 years.

Sure. And sir, second -- last question, sir. Can you give some color around -- it's good to see bulk cement terminals being added. If you could provide some color on why, the rationale behind the locations where we are. And after Phase 2, Phase 3 expansion , any broader thoughts on distribution? So we -- I see a lot of jetties on the western coast line, but we have hardly anything on the eastern coast line. So how should we understand that and the location of the bulk cement terminals. Anything on the distribution?

They are clearly determined by the market and -- the mild market and the kind of demand that exists in those markets. And for East Coast, Jhanwar Ji, do you want to say anything?

The East Coast, because the again, the availability of the right kind of ports, etcetera, is generally hampering unlike the way the terminals are there in Southern India. And ultimately, it's a very composite subject. So there you have your integrated facility of cement and what are the markets which can be conveniently sold actually to those markets. So it's a question of taking integrated holistic approach of putting up either bulk terminal or grinding unit.

Right. But again, sir, we don't see much of bulk cement terminals on the eastern coast line. So what we have is pretty few actually.

Because in East, it is not there because everything needs to be moved by rail only, and the rail - - availability of rail itself is a major challenge in Eastern India as of now. So there is no -- like the sea movement which is happening from Gujarat to the southern side. It's purely the land movement because most of the cement is coming to the Eastern India from Chhatisgarh cluster, actually.

Sir, just one bookkeeping question. Will it be possible -- would it be possible for you to give a split of OPC, PPC, PSC and composite probably for the last fiscal or probably for -- probably I can take it afterwards.

What did you ask?

Product mix, OPC, PPC, PSC and composites.

Everything is blended is one and rest is OPC.

Thank you . The next question is from the line of Sumangal Nevatia from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead.

Just one question left. So Grasim will be launching a Paint venture soon. And at the time of the foray, there was some sort of discussion that the white cement distribution network will be used of UltraTech. So any sort of compensation or benefit we will get? Any quantification since it's very close to launch now?

We are working on a business sharing agreement. But as far as dealer network is concerned, it's a free market, there is no really a royalty that we will get from them for accessing those dealers because they are not our private domain. They are not our pro prietary concerns. There are individuals who anybody can approach to do business.

Okay. So nothing meaningful from this?

They are working independently. We have no role to play in their working model or whatever they are doing.

Understood, understood. And just if I may, a second question, I mean, if you see from an industry perspective, last 18-odd months, there's been three or four big M&A announcements by us and by a few peers. Over the next, say, one, two years, do you see there's further consolidation happening in the industry? And any sort of broad capacity you would like to guide us to? And what sort of consolidation is left in the industry if that would happen?

I think consolidation will be a theme for a few more years. Things will keep happening as we progress along -- as the industry progresses along. That is a given. There are lots of names, and I'm sure you would know them yourselves. Seems roughly for me to repeat them on the call. The names are quite evident, who will be there on the radar.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vishal Periwal from IDBI Capital. Please go ahead.

I think in the call, you briefly mentioned that cement prices in quarter four is slightly lower. Region-wise will it be possible to share how they are currently?

I don't have that immediately.

Okay. Fair enough. And second, I think you did passed upon the fuel cost will be lower in quarter four. So the 6% to 7% number that is for this particular quarter, quarter four on a quarter-quarter basis? Or it is six to eight months.

Two quarters safely.

Okay, okay. Sure. So one can say that probably a split between quarter four and quarter one.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Navin Sahadeo from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.

Sir, just one question. You've given the plans of Phase 3 coming in end capacity by FY'27. But is there any indication how much we could see in FY'26 as such? Or it will be like a lean year as such?

No, no, no. So it will be spread and keep coming gradually. And as we progress on work, we will give a further granular schedules. Because right now, as I mentioned, technology orders have been placed, a couple of sites have started civil work. Major work will start, I'm assuming in '25. Once there is traction, we will give a schedule -- the way we have given the schedule for Phase 2, we will give a schedule for Phase 3 as well.

Understood. We look forward to that. And just one more question. You said for the quarter, the blended cost is around $150. And within that pet coke was more like $126. So at current spot rates, which are more like $115, $116 , the blended cost will be around $130, $131, which is roughly $20 savings from current levels?

Everything gets converted. Everything is at $115 and you have the math.

Yes. You are able to get at $150 shipments, actually. On shipment gets so far $115 but you all know well that the availability of pet coke is very limited. And with every parcel, the price gets charged.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.

So my question was on the carbon trading, which the Indian government is now looking to implement, the CCT scheme, that is. So could you help understand, like I believe the trading will start in FY'26 and FY'25 will be the year when the monitoring starts. So where do you think the benchmarks will be? And is there any potential cost that would come in because of that?

No idea whatsoever. I think I'd love to learn when you learn. Let me know if you come to know about something.

I think there is a lot of talk, but I think it is too early to get a real sense because there are multiple levers the government is yet to take in.

Okay, okay. Got it. And also on the blended fuel cost of $150 and petcoke $126, so the coal, which means implies about $170, $175, correct? I mean, if I'm not wrong in assuming a 50 -50 split. And spot coal, as I can see, at least RB1 at all is now at close to $100, $105. So the difference seems to be quite big in that respect, just if my calculations are correct.

So Amit, this is at the 7,500 CV.

Okay. Got it. So -- and -- but what is the split between pet coke and imported coal right now?

44-46.

Yes, right. 44-46.

Okay, okay. And lastly, Kesoram rebranding strategy, if you could highlight about -- like earlier, we have seen you shift quite fast into UltraTech brand. So will the strategy be similar here? Or will you go slower?

We are not doing anything on Kesoram as yet. First focus is to get regulatory approvals. We'll start working on it after that. There's plenty of time.

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Aman Agrawal from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.

One question from my end on the Eastern market. So many peers have been highlighting for quite some time about the slowness in demand in the Eastern market, especially in states like West Bengal and Bihar. What would be your take on that? What was the key reason why demand is still not panning out as buoyant as other regions?

I think there have been -- as I mentioned in my commentary also, there have been fiscal challenges in the states of Bihar and West Bengal, because of which there has been a slowdown.

Okay. Second, just lastly on industry growth that you would be expecting for 3Q. I'm sure you said that UltraTech has kind of grew better than the industry. Any number you would like to assign for the industry on...

I mentioned, I think we expect the industry to be anywhere between 3% to 4%.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. On behalf of UltraTech Cement, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.

Thank you.