Cohance Lifesciences Limited

FY2027 Q1

2026-08-05 Transcript PDF
Moderator

Thank you very much. We will now begin the Q&Asession. Our first question comes from the line of Kunal Dhamesha with Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is Umang, in your view, when you assess these business segments, right? And some of the recovery might take time but when you look at the target addressable market with the capability that the company has, let's say from a 2 to 3-year perspective, where do you see the growth range for each of these business segments? Because we have provided a lot of details, we have got customer audits and purchase orders, right? So, keeping all that into your view and into that equation, let's say FY27, quantification of where we would see in terms of revenue growth, you directionally suggested but FY27 and beyond FY27, how should we think each of these business segments?

Umang Vohra

Thank you for your question. I think a couple of points. I see, let me just outline. This may not be strictly what you are looking for, but I can give you some color on what I am seeing across our businesses. Let me start on the CDMO side. I think the market in the amidites, oligonucleotide space and the relative start position and scientific capabilities that the Sapala and the Cohance organization have built is going to be a very significant growth driver for the future. I actually see that in 3years or so that this business and whatever we have has a solid chance, in 3to 4years of almost doubling and growing significantly faster than this, right? Now that is directional. It is not what our strat plan target is and what it will be, but I am just trying to share with you what I think can happen.

The second business where I see huge amount of growth is on the ADC side. I think currently, in that business, we are seeing the cost more than the revenue at this stage and I think that is because of reasons, where specifically on the ADC side in NJBio, the cost basis of that business is today challenged for more revenue. And I think once the revenue trajectory there comes back, which is what we are hoping will happen as we did lose some level of FTE customers there because of the biotech funding concerns that happened some time back. At least, even if the profitability of the business does not reach where we want it to be, I believe that the cost base would get amortized significantly, right? And as we speak, NJBio and the combination with Cohance in terms of our payloads and everything else is beginning to build a pipeline that we think is significant. So, my objective on that side of the business, to be honest, is just to make sure that the amount of cost that is running in that business is commensurate to the amount of revenue we can generate in the future. On the small molecule chemistry side, I see very large potential for several reasons. Our teams have been in the marketplace for a fair amount of time now, and this is about the time when conversions begin to happen. We werenot seeing much of that uptil the previous quarter. But in this quarter, which is the late period of Q1FY27and in the beginning ofQ2FY27, we are beginning to see some solid reload orders and some solid conversions coming through, which is building to this thesis that Yann has laid out in terms of our pipeline is beginning to look good and the pipeline is looking good. So, H2of this year, we are hoping to see a strong CDMO performance. I also think that this next quarter in CDMO will be significantly better than Q1FY27that we have done. And in longer term, this business is poised for good growth because quite honestly, when I look at the reporting universe outside in India, that side of the business is showing growth across most of our peers, and so therefore, I do think that getting back our ability to service customers here and new business is very strong. Let me go to the API+business. This is for us as much an API business as people generally call it, but also a business that has legacy where we deal with innovators. And in a very significant manner with a few innovators, who we also deal with on the CDMO side of our business. So, there is predictability to this business that we are beginning to see now, and in many ways if you were to understand the Cohance model, this is the bedrock of what the CDMO business and the AgChem business will add to, as we begin to top up and add up as a company. So, I see very steady growth. Pretty sustainable. Gunjan and his team are doing a good job in terms of just being able to look at lock-in customers and this could be a CAGR business going forward where eventually at the size and scale of this business, we are still probably just 30%-40% of our potential over a 3to 5year period, right? So that is where I think this business will go, and the profitability also in this business can be significant. Coming to our Performance Chem and AgChem businesses, I think one of the things that Amrit has spoken about is the need for this business to move up the value chain to partner with innovators. So far, for whatever reasons, we have been in this business of trying to partner with a limited number of

molecules in a limited amount of capacity, and we are trying to unlock some of the existing capacity, refurbish some of it but also tie up with innovators on challenges that they come across and AgChem also has the unfortunate issue of going through a downturn across the world. But from what we are seeing in terms of new products that we are landing with innovators, etc., this business has also got a very strong potential to improve its profitability and improve its top line, and it could be in the same ballpark range that we have been talking about for the rest of the businesses. I think that all three businesses have the potential, some because of their base effect, some because they have just mind the opportunities now over the last one and one-and-a-half years with new BD teams and some because they have reached a size like the API+ business has reached a particular size that offers the stability and bedrock for Cohance going forward. So in simple terms, I think that the business has the ability clearly to begin to show solid growth over the next 3plus years and most of this will start becoming visible only second half of FY27.

From your pecking order perspective, in terms of, let's say, the capital allocation or the future capacity addition, is it very nuanced, as to, you will just look at that, okay, AgChem, I can do this molecule, hence I invest or is it more top down that CDMO is the biggest delta generator and hence all focus on CDMO. How do you think about this?, Also,what is your sense on the synergies of these businesses ? API and probably, small molecule CDMO is almost everyone is doing but AgChem and Specialty Chem business, how does that fit into the overall scheme?

Umang Vohra

If your question is, how do we characterize capital allocation in the business, let me answer it, not potentially by business segment, right? Because , I could see a really exciting opportunity in an API+ business or an innovation-partnered AgChem business, which might actually be higher than the ROI in some of our other business segments, right? So, what we are prioritizing in terms of allocation of capacities, there is the Cohance hook. Where is it that we are better than the world? It could be, you know, areas like colored compounds, could be other areas where we believe we have positions, where we have historically done intermediates for innovators, and we prioritize that section of the business. The section of the business that works with innovation, the section of the business that has the ability you know, innovators across our chain, whether it is pharma, whether it is life sciences, AgChem, right? And that is the part of the business that we are trying to feed. Now a lot of it naturally gravitates towards Pharma CDMO, but even our API strategy is equally, about building positions with innovators and more solid positions that offer stability. So, the ROI rubric within the organization is significant from an NPV perspective, but it is also trying to drive the company up the value chain to partner with innovators.

Umang Vohra

Well, let me put it this way, - logically the API and the CDMO businesses are closer, than the AgChem and the Performance Chem business. However, having said that, we have a few facilities where AgChem and more importantly, Performance Chem happen in the same location, may not be in the same block. As we make our production. So the synergies that we get from our AgChem and Performance Chem businesses are around the areas of leveraging common overheads at facilities, but also some customers operate in this segment as well. Some of our innovator customers on the pharma side are also kind of common, the companies are the same, the teams may be different, on the Performance Chem and AgChem side of the business.

Sure. And lastly on the cost side, while you talked about NJBio, where our near-term plan would be to match the cost with the revenue, but overall at a consolidated level, do you see opportunities, to optimize the cost? And if yes, what is the potential there?

Umang Vohra

Let me put it this way, there is always potential to optimize cost, whether it is in supply chain or in the organization. But for us, optimizing those costs which are not creating the value we want, there could be capacities which are running at low utilizations. There could be, as I mentioned, around the whole ADC space and the amount of costs that we incur in the US on NJBio, etcetera. So, we are trying to optimize that section to generate more revenue, to generate more utilization, as against taking an approach right now to begin to cut and curtail.

Sure. Thank you for answers, and thank you, Himanshu for all the help that you have provided during your tenure, and all the best.

Himanshu Agarwal

Thanks Kunal. Appreciate it.

Moderator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shyam Srinivasan with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Goldman Sachs

Thank you for taking my question. Just on the CDMO business, from a macro standpoint, how are things looking right now? There is this legislative angle around, the Department of Defense list naming certain peers of yours. So, just want to understand what is happening from a macro front. How is this translating into RFQ and say order win rates for Indian companies, including ourselves, if you could just give us some color? Thank you. Yann D’Herve: The overall megatrend, right, for Indian CDMO have not changed, right? So, there are several trends that are helping Indian CDMOs. The first one is the geopolitical situation where we see large pharmaceutical companies and also biotech trying to diversify their supply, and that are coming more to India to shop for R&D support and manufacturing support. That has not changed.We also see more alignment in terms of supply for intermediates and starting material between India and US, as you may imagine, right? As there are significant efforts in US to de-risk also some of the supply coming from other countries. So, that is good. We see that translate into increase number of RFQs that we are seeing, especially in late-stage RFQs, Phase 3 and commercial, that we are bidding on.

For those RFQ, please keep in mind that the clients have always already 1 or 2 sources. So, it takes a little bit longer for conversion into actual business because clients are not in a hurry to do the change. That is the situation today, and we are benefiting from that situation at Cohance.

Goldman Sachs

Helpful. My second question is on the API+ business. I think there is some commentary that you shared around pricing discipline. So, , are we able to kind of adjust our prices upwards in response to, say, solvent prices or raw material inputs, and how does this translate into growth for this particular business when we look forward?.

Gunjan Singh

Thanks for the question. The price increase which happened during the last quarter, largely due to the larger raw material price escalations which we witnessed because of the geopolitical situation, we tried our level best in terms of transferring a decent portion of that increase to our customers. The business is typically on relationships, so we have to be mindful of the near-term and the long- term play there. However, we were able to pass on a major chunk of the cost escalation in terms of price increases. In this business, typically, as Umang also mentioned, the profitability and the growth still remain robust. The key sources of growth are going to be with new product addition and building up further on the relationships, like the life cycle management opportunities with the innovators, and capturing the value chain proposition with our play all across intermediate, APIs, pellets, and formulations. So, these are the key drivers for growth which we are trying to capitalize on.

Goldman Sachs

Got it. My last question on financial metric, which is EBITDA margins. Standalone, we did 9%. Historically, we have had higher margins when operating leverage plays out positively. Given the kind of changes we have seen in the business structure, do we foresee that our margins whenever they normalize, whether FY28, or FY29, whenever you want to call out, would they be materially different to how history has been, under the new structure, and it could be standalone margins, could be consolidated, because now you are talking about even Sapala plus NJBio. So, any outlook on how we should look at overall margin. I am not pinning you down to a specific year, but just how we should look at it in the path forward.

Himanshu Agarwal

Shyam, I think Umang’s response to Kunal's question, gave a very good view on how we are looking at the business and how the business would span out in 3 to 4 years. The fact is that the current quarter has a significant operating leverage given the way the revenue was. And our expectation is that as the top line increases, which it will, the operating leverage will start to play in, right? And given the way the business would span out, the margins will start to come back. Now whether it will reach to 35%, at this point of time, it is difficult to articulate that, but yes, we are expecting the margins to steadily increase year-on-year given the operating leverage that will play in.

Moderator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Bansi Desai with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

JP Morgan

Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Umang, my first question is to you. In your opening remarks, you mentioned, your confidence in Cohance's recovery stems from the fact that, there is scientific capabilities, and we appreciate the fact that when it comes to ADCs and oligonucleotides, Cohance does have a differentiated positioning. But if you look at the broader small molecule business, which

is still a bigger part of the CDMO TAM for the industry, where the competition is so intense, what will make a customer choose Cohance over, say, other CDMO companies? So, where do you see the differentiation there that will help Cohance win more business?

Umang Vohra

A great question. Thanks, and I am happy to answer it. In this business, my understanding so far, and in as much as I can just tell you what I have seen in the last 3 months to 4 months and what I know about this business from outside. I think there are 2-3things that happen. A relationship starts with a customer, which begins to result in scientific exchange of ideas across both sides, i.e., across the customer and the client. And eventually, what begins to happen is that because of the scientific expertise that is transferred, that relationship continues to grow, and along with what gets transferred, you also begin to build capabilities that are structured in your organization for the benefit of the partner that you are working with. If you look around the CDMO universe today, many of our peers have these 2or 3anchor relationships with customers which have resulted in their businesses reaching a critical size. And it is all because the relationship started with 1or 2customers and eventually moved into multiple products, but deepening the relationship with those. Some of our peers may have actually moved faster than Cohance, and that is a certainty now, considering where Cohance is in the molecule business, and to some extent, the leadership churn that has happened in Cohance did not help this in the past. However, the way we look at it now, we have anchor relationships with our customers. We have built significant trust with at least 2or 3 customers we have had over the past couple of years. And, a lot of these customers did not necessarily increase the width of their business with us in the past 2 years to 3 years. And we are hoping that changes now. That is one source of revenue, which is not easily replaceable because gaining this trust and building this trust and widening this relationship at least for the businesses of Cohance has taken 7 years, and the general sense is that this investing of time takes 7 to 10 years for everybody like Cohance to do across the across the universe, right? So, that is number one. That is your biggest hook. And we feel confident about our existing relationships widening. The second where you compete is because of this transfer of technology, information, of science that happens between large innovator companies and yourself, you start becoming better at what you do. You start having more differentiated analytical methods. You start creating a team of scientists that customers want to call when they have a problem. And at that point in time, when you begin to see type of people, who are very big in our sector, companies like Divi's, companies like Laurus, right? They have matured this capability over several years, and I think Cohance is in a journey where it is getting onto that path to get and develop the science envelope for itself. So, you compete on the basis of your relationships, you compete on basis of your science and your capability, which is the journey that we are on. And if you were to take from where we are today and our starting position, you would come to the conclusion that we have capability, capacity, and hunger to be able to do it. The third is costs. Now, it is a great area to play cost, because everybody wants the lowest cost, but my general belief, that is not a very sustainable proposition, so you have to bank back on your relationship and on your scientific prowess and the science envelope that you have as a company. So, this is where we will compete. We will compete in what we know best. We will compete in things where our manufacturing setups have unique features which require certain types of chemistry, and

we will compete in widen for the partners who have worked with us and try and get new partners as well.

JP Morgan

Yes. This is quite helpful. And if we look at our Phase 3 pipeline so we have good number of assets there, 10 assets in Phase 3, if that is the updated number. On basis on that, do we have the confidence to grow this business significantly over next 3 to 4 years? Do you believe there are those high-value opportunities sitting there because these opportunities arejust a matter of commercialization, right? We already are there in Phase 3 with these customers. So, just looking at our late-stage pipeline today, do we have confidence of delivering high growth over the next 2 to 3 years?

Umang Vohra

Yes. I think so. Those 10 products in pipeline in Phase 3 are what technically should be driving a lot of the growth. But let me also request Yann to talk about those 10 and what he thinks could be potential going forward. Yann D’Herve: A very good question, and thanks, Umang, for forwarding the question here. Maybe one thing to keep in mind always.. Let me answer on the commercial side. On the commercial, I always mention that we have a bimodal distribution, right? With a lot of freshly approved molecules and a few molecules that are maturing, okay? And that explains why our revenue has gone down, right? And why we are very confident that it will go up from now on because we have a lot of reloadsrelated to the molecules that have just entered the market. So, they are in the growth phase with our customers. That is on the commercial side of the business. On Phase 3, we are in, as indicated, 10 molecules, and we have reloads that are coming on a regular basis. So, of course, some of those molecules may not make it to the market, because they will not get the approval at the end, but, at least, we can expect that more than 50% should get the approval at the end. And here we are very well-positioned as well, and that is feed our pipeline that is maturing if you want, right? So, the first node of the pipeline, the one that is in the growth phase. So, that is the reason why we are very confident in our ability to grow the small molecule CDMO business in the near future.

JP Morgan

And just one last question, in our existing commercial portfolio, do we have any product which is likely to see patent expiration in the near future? Is there anything that we should be mindful of? Yann D’Herve: We have 2molecules that are expected to have a patent expiration. However, since we are supplying the intermediates, and the intermediates that we are supplying today are for post-patent expiration of the product, we have already seen the decrease in the past two fiscal years. That is what I meant by the bimodal distribution, right? The second node, the one that is more mature, if you want, we have already seen the decrease here.

Moderator

Thank you. The next question is from the line of Foram Parekh with BOB Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

BOB Capital markets

Thank you for the opportunity. My first question is on the growth outlook for 3to 4years. Since we have a good visibility, and we have spoken about doubling our ADC and oligonucleotide business,

and we have little more positive growth outlook from 3to 4years perspective. So, just wanted to understand, how are we looking at the $1 billion sales target that we had given for FY30? Do we still retain that target?

Umang Vohra

You know, I still have not got that level of granularity, but I will definitely come back to that as I had promised before the end of the year. And it is not that I am trying to skirt the question. I just do not have a firm enough answer for you, but I will endeavor to get one by December. At this point, I am almost feeling like that the target is an aspiration. I am not sure that we are at a point where we can say how close or whether we would exceed it at this point in time. But, quite honestly, to have a $1 billion aspiration is a great aspiration for this business. I do think we may be a little bit away from it over the next 3to 4years, but I would love to put more color to it before I can answer you.

BOB Capital markets

Sure, no problem. And my second question is on the restocking of molecule. So we had a destocking impact to the tune of INR260 crore, as we called out last quarter. So, if you can give us just some color, how much percentage of this are we seeing for restocking in this year? Some color there?

Himanshu Agarwal

As we said that of the two molecules, one molecule is what we have announced as coming back, and what Jan had also mentioned that the order is spread over the 2years. So it is a bit early at this stage to quantify how much of the INR260 crore would come in, because I would wait for the progress on the other molecule as well. So, do allow us some time, we will get a better clarity probably by the end of the second call in terms of how much we should be looking at to come in this year and what would be looking at in FY28 as well. I am going to ask Yann if he wants to add something more, because he has a deeper color on the restocking. Yann D’Herve: No, I think it is a fair answer, Himanshu. I do not have anything to add at this stage.

BOB Capital markets

My last question is on the segment mix. So, this quarter our API+ segment has gone up to 60%. So, how should we look at this mix, do we see it sustainable for the rest of the year? And if you can give us some color on the profitability side also, since we said it is not like a normal commodity API business as we also deal with the innovators. So, if you can give us some color, like how the profitability usually is in this business, because we are seeing some good growth as we have 10 new products to be launched in this segment.

Gunjan Singh

Sure. See, what we have in API+ is a pretty differentiated portfolio. A portfolio which is highly concentrated on CNS segment. If you see CNS, after obesity and oncology, is the third fastest growing segment and will continue. The amount of innovation which is happening in CNS is very high. And definitely, the portfolio and the relationships with the customers would get an advantage of the same there. Additionally, we are also pretty strong in control substances. Some of which came through the legacy acquisitions and we have further nurtured the relationships as well as the portfolio there. So, we are adding more such niche products that can have a hook with the customers to whom we are doing these current control substances businesses.

There is an inherent entry barrier because of the supply chain and the regulatory limitations on managing the control substances. Plus, as you alreadymentioned and Umang also commented, we have a decent chunk of innovator relationships with us. There are products with the innovators where we are, commanding more than 50% of the global market share, and we are further increasing the share of wallet with them by adding more products. So, the advantage in innovator relationships is that once they invest their resources in qualifying your manufacturing plant by auditing on the quality, safety, digital, IT, finance, all those areas, they tend to stick with you. So, we have been leveraging and we further want to double down on these levers which we have. Our margin profile is, I cannot exactly comment on a number, I leave it to Himanshu for that, but we have a pretty handsome among the top tier within the industry in terms of the generic API space, if you see.

BOB Capital markets

Sure, and how should we look at this current quarter's mix? Do we see it sustainable or this segment would be the larger growing segment in our portfolio?

Gunjan Singh

See, of course, I think the thesis here, that all the three verticals should fire at their maximum, right? So, whether it is Yann, Amrit, or myself, we will be all working very strong, in terms of growing our relative pies there. However, I do see a sustained growth, largely backed by the kind of new product additions. So, as you might have read or heard, we are filing 7products this year, and we did around 9 products last year. And this is in a business where historically, very few filings were there, right? So, we have really accelerated the new filing thing, adding new products. We are investing in new capacities for commercializing these products there. So, of course, the revenues would come in. I am pretty confident of a decent, continuous growth in this segment.

BOB Capital markets

And my last question, if I may, is to Himanshu. Its on the EBITDA margin, if not 35%, but if you can give us some color where are we internally seeing first milestone EBITDA margin to be achieved at least in next 2to 3years?

Himanshu Agarwal

So Foram we should be looking at a number which will be closer to previous year margin percentage for the current year. And we should thereafter start accelerating from FY28 onwards.

BOB Capital markets

Sure. That is helpful. Thank you, and all the best.

Moderator

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Shreya Chatterjee with Ageless Capital. Please go ahead.

Ageless Capital

Thank you for taking my question. Would it be possible to give some color as to how the different segments of the business, like Pharma CDMO, Spec Chem plus AgChem, and then API+, and the initiativeas well, will evolve over the next 2to 3quarters? As in, how many molecules that are going to come in the pipeline, what revenue can be expect from all these segments? So, that would be my first question for the next 2to 3quarters.

Ageless Capital

Yes, sure. No problem. In general, if you can just tell me what all molecules do you expect to see, especially in the Pharma CDMO and the ADC side in this year?

Umang Vohra

In this year, we have guided towards the H2 being a growth over the previous year, and so we will have new molecules as well as our reload and older molecules, but we do not give the type of color that you are asking. But the color that we gave in when we answered Kunal's question at the beginning of the call was about the longer-term prospects of the business, which Cyndrella will share with you.

Ageless Capital

Sure. No worries. And my second question is on the other expenses side. I understand because this was a low revenue quarter, there was operating deleverage, but we have seen the other expenses remain elevated since the merger had taken place. So, where do we see the other expenses evolving like over this year and the next? And what are the major components in the other expenses? Was there some component of merger expenses that is flowing through? If you could just give some breakdown or some color to this other expense part?

Himanshu Agarwal

There is no merger-related expenses which areappearing in this quarter. We do not really have one- offs there. These are more administrative type of expenses which are there in our regular business.

Ageless Capital

So, this will continue, this is like as is business as is expense that will continue over this year?

Himanshu Agarwal

Yes, you can take that as an assumption.

Moderator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Miss Cyndrella Carvalho for closing comments.

Thank you everyone for joining today, and thanks for spending time. We will speak on our next quarter. Thank you.

Moderator

Thank you. On behalf of Cohance Lifesciences, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please note: We have edited the language, made minor corrections, without changing much of the content, wherever appropriate, to bring better clarity.