Glenmark Pharmaceuticals Limited

Aug 2025 call

2025-08-18 Transcript PDF
Moderator

Thank you. The first question is from the line of Damayanti Kerai from HSBC. Please go ahead.

My first question is on India business. So this antidiabetic portfolio, which is undergoing some pressure, I think we discussed earlier. But it seems despite launch of Liraglutide, we are yet to see any meaningful release there. So can you talk about it, l ike how long do you think it will take to really get over this antidiabetic portfolio drag? And then this difference between your secondary data, which is 15% against 8% IPM, there is huge difference between the 15% and around 4% reported growth. Like how we can assume this will converge and when that will likely happen? That's my first question.

Glenn Saldanha

So Damayanti, Glenmark now with the ISB 2001 deal and our move towards becoming more of a branded company. I think going forward, our vision is to focus more on high-margin products, right? So a lot of the tail -end brands we are moving out of, right? Like a typical branded company, the idea is to keep moving up the value chain and focus more on the margin profile of the high-value products and the branded products. So I think going forward, this quarter and maybe Q2, right, from Q3 onwards w e expect the secondary sales growth of India, and the reported growth will be very close, right, from then onwards. The other thing about India is you talked about diabetes. So now we have full supply for the first time of LIRAFIT. So from Q2 onwards, you should see diabetes sales improving significantly. In addition, the launch of both TEVIMBRA and BRUKINSA, right, the 2 big products happened in July, right? So this quarter, you should see good uptake of these 2 products since both of them are commercially launched now. So I think these -- so overall, look, our India business, as you can see in IQVIA as well as AWACS, right, the data is very strong. So our growth is very strong in the market. And if you take a slightly longer -term view, CAGR, India will grow between 10% t o 15% CAGR, right, over the next 3 to 5 years. So we are very confident that the India business growth will be strong. The other segment is our OTC business, right, the Glenmark Consumer Care, which we spun out, right? The growth there also is upwards of 20%, right, on a CAGR basis. So I think overall, India will continue to be a very strong market for us, right? I think p ost Q3, you should see the numbers play out quite significantly.

Sure. If I can ask a related question, see, you are moving towards more profitable branded products, et cetera, which is in line with your long -term goals. But will that lead to a situation, again, you have a high dependency on a few products, a few big br ands and again, that concentration risk will play out later as well?

Glenn Saldanha

No, that's not the case. I mean, see, if you see the GCs have already started improving, right, with the knocking off of some of the tail-end brands. And I think going forward, you should see continued improvement in the margin profile. With regards to your question on specific brands, right, look, we have -- Glenmark, we have very strong brand spread ac ross different segments, right? And even as we mentioned, our OTC, DTC brands, which are coming up now, EVIMBRA, BRUKINSA will be 2 big brands, which will help. LIRAFIT, right, which is Liraglutide, right, will become a strong brand. So it's much more broad -based than concentrated, right, given the branded nature of our business.

I have 2 questions on the U.S. business. So you mentioned around 9 to 10 injectables out there in the market, some of which came through partners as well. So first, any update on Monroe? And if Monroe gets clear, how many injectable products we can expect for, say, next 12 to 15 months in the U.S.? And then second question on the U.S. sales, how much of these litigation antitrust issues are still remaining for you? If you can have -- provide some color, there.

Glenn Saldanha

Sure. So on the U.S. business, right? I mean, so as you've seen, we grew Q -on-Q, right, in the first quarter. In the second quarter, we are launching 3 more injectable products through partnerships. That will drive the second quarter growth, and we expect a good second quarter also in -- form H2, right, we are hoping to launch some of the respiratory products, right, mainly generic Flovent, right, 44, right, which we think will be a big launch for us. And then in addition, some of the partnership products, we continue to commercialize even in Q3 and Q4. So I think all in all, U.S., there is a clear trajectory to see higher growth going forward, right, compared to what we've had historically. With regards to Monroe, as you know, we had 5 observations from our last inspection. We've responded to that, and we are waiting -- we are working with the FDA to resolve that, right? We are hoping that this year we will restart commercial manufacturing. That's our view on Monroe.

And the antitrust litigations, which are still like out there.

Glenn Saldanha

Yes. So on litigations, I mean, our view is we have just one major litigation, which is the multi- district litigation, which is ongoing. We settled with the DPPs as you've seen in the first quarter. We've done a settlement with the DPPs. There are a couple of more classes, which we are continuing to litigate on. I can't give you any visibility on any time line.

Moderator

The next question is from the line of Saion Mukherjee from Nomura.

Can you provide the net debt number at the end of the quarter?

Anurag Mantri

So net debt, Saion, in the quarter was around INR1,500 crores at the end of the quarter.

Tushar Manudhane

Sir, just with respect to Monroe, have we started like in terms of the exhibit validation package for other facility -- I mean for the other products? Or do we need to wait till the observations gets resolved?

Glenn Saldanha

No, the facility is continuing to take batches. So we continue to take exhibit batches of products like iron sucrose and several others that we are working on. So that as and when we have resolution, not only could we start commercial manufacturing, but we will also accelerate some filings out of the facility.

Tushar Manudhane

And so as far as observations addressing observations is concerned, that is largely done from our side, right? It's now the feedback or the response from U.S. FDA, which is awaited?

Glenn Saldanha

That's correct.

Tushar Manudhane

Okay. And sir, so this partnered product strategy, if you could sort of elaborate while we do have our own facility, but -- so is it because we are diversifying in anticipation of these regulatory issues? Or is there something else to this?

Glenn Saldanha

I think strategically, we are primarily focused in 2 areas in the U.S., right? One is the respiratory products going forward, right? And the second is injectables. And on the injectable side, we are -- we have a two-pronged strategy of in -licensing products, right, which are -- which we think have approval or are significantly differentiated as well as filings out of Monroe. So I think longer term, we will have a -- if you look at us in the next 3 to 5 years, we should have a strong injectable portfolio, right, which is evolving in the U.S. along with a number of respiratory products, right, which is filed and getting approved in the next 3 to 5 years. So I think these are the 2 segments which we are primarily focused on, right, in addition to a few OSDs and derm products.

Tushar Manudhane

But, sir, the pace of filing seems to be low as far as FY '26 is concerned, there's 5 to 6 filings expected in FY '26.

Glenn Saldanha

But that's in-house, okay? In addition, we do all these partnerships, right? So typically, we will launch about 10-odd products a year. That's the minimum run rate you should expect.

Tushar Manudhane

Got it. And sir, just secondly, on the gross margin front, like it's been decent for the first quarter, maybe year-over-year as well as quarter-over-quarter. Like is it more to do with the segmental mix, geography mix, if you could elaborate? And so the outlook for full year '26 as far as gross margin is concerned.

Anurag Mantri

So gross margin side, as we've mentioned is that the focus is on the branded markets and which will help us continue to strengthen the gross margin and also the well -diversified geographical portfolio, especially Europe and emerging markets in addition to India, will continue to drive the gross margin northwards. So that's how our focus on the business is.

Anurag Mantri

Yes -- yes. I think we believe at this moment, because of our strategic thing and the launches which we have in pipeline, we believe that this number is sustainable and achievable.

Tushar Manudhane

And sir, subsequently, anything further to do with the increase in MRs or field force across these branded markets per se in FY '26?

Glenn Saldanha

I think we keep adding sales force, right, at every stage wherever required, right? A lot of it is basis the products and the product mix, right? For example, we recently got approval for RYALTRIS in Colombia and Thailand, 2 markets. We are expecting RYALT RIS approval in Brazil and China yet this year, right? All this should help drive our emerging market busines s, right? In addition, we have QiNHAYO launches, which will come up, right, which may need some additional field force. India, we keep augmenting some field force every year, right, nominal amounts depending on the product mix and the product portfolio. So I think we don't have any specific number that we can guide to in terms of field force additions, but it is something we keep doing depending on our products and product mix.

Tushar Manudhane

So any broad guidelines on the EBITDA margin front for full year?

Anurag Mantri

So as we earlier guided that Q3 onwards the EBITDA margin trajectory should stabilize close to a 23% plus range. So 23% is what we are guiding. Q2, I would say that it will be because of the IGI deal flow. It will not be really a presentable or the comparable number. But Q3 onwards as a business, we believe that 23% margin trajectory will stabilize for EBITDA.

Tushar Manudhane

This is including generic volumes, right?

Anurag Mantri

Including?

Tushar Manudhane

Generic volume?

Anurag Mantri

Yes, its overall business margin, right? It's at full business level.

Moderator

The next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from DAM Capital.

DAM Capital

Anurag, on the question on net debt, what has been the sequential increase in net debt and what is it driven by?

Anurag Mantri

See, in the first quarter, if you see on the business, there were -- obviously, there was an increase in some of the sales realization and all the things. Therefore, there was an increase in the gross debt. And the gross debt in the quarter was close to INR3,200 crores.

Glenn Saldanha

I think the buildup -- go ahead, Nitin.

DAM Capital

No, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Anurag Mantri

Yes, because…

Glenn Saldanha

Payment due to LCDF one-off severance payments, right, that we had, right, and plant closures.

I think we had -- also had a couple of launches in Europe, Nitin, particularly, which actually got pushed to Q2. So inventory buildup was in preparation of some of these launches. So I think over the course of the next couple of quarters, the numbers will stabilize.

DAM Capital

And sir, just to conclude the point, where do we -- what we see a stabilized, normalized levels of working capital for us now going forward?

Anurag Mantri

So net working capital days, what we continue to monitor closely is that and then 110, 115 net working capital days, that's what we believe in a sustainable and long -term basis. We should continue to maintain to have -- to achieve the margin and the trajectory which we are targeting.

DAM Capital

And secondly, on the -- in the quarterly numbers this quarter, there's a pretty large component of other operating income. A, can you state what is it about? And how is it booked across various segments?

Anurag Mantri

So other operating income consists of ongoing royalty income, some of the incentive income as well as some of the price -- debit note price adjustments. And this is across the various markets. So accordingly, then it gets -- it's a very common in the normal course of the business.

DAM Capital

The bump up in the gross margin, there's no one -off bump up in gross margin because of this other operating income as you said gross margin around these levels?

Anurag Mantri

No, it's not a one-off sort of. It's very ongoing and very pertaining to the core business.

DAM Capital

And again, on the IFC deal, when do you see a closure and the proceeds coming through?

Glenn Saldanha

September, we are hoping to close, Nitin.

DAM Capital

Okay. And last one, you've transferred the consumer business in India to a subsidiary. Any thoughts on what is the game plan here? How does it help beyond a point?

Glenn Saldanha

So this is purely done to increase the focus, right, because we think that's a good segment to continue to focus on, right? So there's no plan to do any capital raise or anything in that subsidiary. It's just a matter of heightened focus in that business.

Moderator

The next question is from the line of Amlan Das from Nomura.

Nomura

My question is, sir, what was the gross addition for the quarter?

Anurag Mantri

Sorry, can you just repeat, please?

Nomura

Sir, what was your gross capex addition for the quarter, both tangible and intangible that you report every quarter?

Anurag Mantri

So capex addition for the quarter was around INR180 crores. And as we guided that the full year capex guidance, we continue to remain on track.

Nomura

And could you just give the split between tangible and intangible, sir?

Anurag Mantri

It is typically 65 -35. That's what the broad split of tangible and intangible in terms of overall percentage in the quarter.

Nomura

Okay, sir. And what was your R&D expenditure for the quarter? And how much of it was innovation R&D, sir?

Anurag Mantri

Around 7%. And so it's the same range what we've guided for the full year. R&D expenditure is to be around 7.5%. So in this quarter, it was around 7% and around half of it was in -- related to IGI.

Moderator

The next question is from the line of Bino Pathiparampil from Elara Capital.

Elara Capital

Can we get a little more clarity on the accounting of the upfront payment we get from AbbVie. From what you said, I understand we will start amortizing it in Q3. So what would be the exact amount that would come on P&L?

Anurag Mantri

So out of the overall upfront payment, basically, that upfront payment also it's onetime and non- refundable, but also it will cover the IGI expenditure for the next 3 years in terms of their own spend. So accordingly, as per the prudent accounting guidelines, we will split the accounting basically that leaving that IGI next 3 years to be accounted as per their own expenditure guidelines so that overall P&L doesn't get a fluctuation and onetime abnormalities. And the balance, we will actually book it in the quarter 2 itself.

Elara Capital

So how much would that be that amount which will come to the P&L?

Anurag Mantri

So broadly, last time we guided that our IGI expenditure for next 3 years are close to be around $210 million, $210 million to $225 million. And balance, so you can expect to be then accordingly. Obviously, there would be a tax would be onetime, which will be upfront in the quarter 2. So accordingly, let the money come, I think then we will be able to give you the more specific one. But we are also in discussions with the auditors at both the levels, how we should be doing it so that investors get a fair view of the P&L.

Elara Capital

Understood. And once that money comes in, at a consolidated level, where will our net debt go to?

Glenn Saldanha

It will be cash positive basis.

Anurag Mantri

Yes. So we are -- we will be surely cash positive post money, on the consolidated level.

I have a question on ISB 2001 study, dose expansion study where you had started patient recruitment. So you mentioned the deal with AbbVie will get closed in -- will be closed in September. So are you continuing the study? Or how things will move there?

Glenn Saldanha

So currently, we are continuing to run the dose expansion. And obviously, once the deal consummates, we will sit down with AbbVie and decide the next steps. I can't give you more visibility, but the dose expansion continues as we speak.

So you're running the clinical trials as of now and the related costs, et cetera, is part of your expenses, right? And only when the deal gets closed with AbbVie, things will move, isn't it?

Glenn Saldanha

Correct.

Moderator

The next question is from the line of Anubhav Goel from Cosma Ventures.

Cosma Ventures

Just wanted a question on Monroe, these 5 observations we have got. Any particular observation which can set us back tougher to resolve? Or are we broadly confident we should get through?

Glenn Saldanha

It's always hard to predict, but we think we are pretty confident that we should be able to restart commercial manufacturing soon.

Cosma Ventures

Okay, sir. Okay, sir. And sir, just one more question on the Indian business. Our secondary sales is doing very well. So I think you mentioned from Q2 -- from Q3, we expect our India numbers to be strong. So 2Q should be soft for the India unit?

Glenn Saldanha

No, no. All we are saying is that the secondary sales will catch up with IMS, IQVIA and AWACS, right, starting from Q3 onwards.

Cosma Ventures

And sir, this divergence is largely because of the discontinuation of the tail-end brand?

Glenn Saldanha

That's correct. It's basically moving up to higher -margin products, right, and focusing on that and discontinuing some of the low-margin tail-end brands.

Moderator

Ladies and gentlemen, that was our last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Utkarsh Gandhi for his closing comments.

Thanks, Lizanne. Before we close the call, I'd just like to mention the disclaimer that discussion, information, statements and analysis made describing the company or its affiliates' objectives, projections and estimates are forward -looking statements bas ed on current expectations, forecasts and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties which could cause actual outcomes and results to differ materially. This discussion should not be regarded by recipients as a substitute for the exercise of their own judgments, and the company undertakes no obligation to update or revise its forward -looking statements because of new information, future events or otherwise . With that, we can close the call -- the Q1 call. Thank you, everyone, for joining. Thanks, Lizanne.

Moderator

Thank you, members of the management team. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Glenmark Pharmaceuticals Limited, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.