Wipro Limited

FY2024 Q2

2023-10-18 Transcript PDF
Moderator

Thank y ou very much. We will now begin the question -and-answer session. We have our first question from the line of Kumar Rakesh from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

BNP Paribas

My first question was around the large deal TCV. So, over the last four quarters, you have been consistently reporting 1 billion or more of large deal TCV. Over the last two quarters, your revenue from existing customers have reached almost close to 100% about 99.6 or so number which was about 95, 96 sorts of a percent last year. Does that imply that large part of these deals which we are seeing are renewal deals? I understand that you don't disclose those data, but this challenge of high deal win not translating into revenue is not just unique to you, we have seen with othe r companies as w ell, but at least their guidance or the commentary do suggest that in the coming quarters they are going to see a much better growth outlook, whereas in contrast, your outlook suggests that the growth is going to further deaccelerate from hereon and it's absolutely in contrast to the deal win TCV, which you're reporting. So is that a reflection that almost the entire part of the large deal TCV which we are seeing here is actually a renewal and not meaningfully new deal TCV.

Thierry Delaporte

This is not the case. I think you are certainly reflecting on the fact that indeed bookings in TCV have been very solid over the last quarter, that is true. What we are seeing is we are winning more large deals. There's a good balance between new and renewals. Renewals can include incr ea se d scope in the case of consolidation. So, we have different types of those large deals. I think you will recognize also what we've said because the market has not dramatically changed versus the previous last quarter is that while we wi n large deals that may take a little bit more time to convert into revenue. There's a lower volume of discretionary spend being clocked if you like with our clients, that is the kind of now type of revenue that we are missing. The revenue trend you're seeing is a reflection of those two different realities. On one side, there's a very decent volume of business in the market. We have a strong pipeline and we are winning a nice share of these deals. We are winning more larger than before. Every quarter we imp rove. I mean, it's quite interesting. We've moved from occasionally a big one to now more systematically I would say win large deals this time to close to half a billion -dollar deal for the same quarter is a sign of that. And yet at the same time, discreti onary spend is lower. You know that, like everybody in our industry, we have certain volume of our business that is more discretionary. We might be a little more exposed than some others because of our significant presence in consulting business in particular. And even if we know that it will be the first one to bounce back when the demand is there. So that's what we are saying. And now the last thing is accepting the fact we are guiding for the quarter to come and not beyond that and that's probably why That' s how we are guiding to you. But we also believe that should the market remain as it is, we will slowly bounce back.

BNP Paribas

My second question was around your strategy of exiting from the smaller accounts and we started seeing the effect of that fro m last year's fourth quarter and since then the revenue for the IT services has come down by about $90 million. It appears to be that proactively pruning small accounts at a time when the demand environment could be counterproductive and actually could be one of the reasons why our growth could be getting impacted.

Thierry Delaporte

First of all, our strategy that we elaborated back in 2020 was to clearly get a lot of large accounts. We had at that time 11 accounts over 100 million, which was clearly lower th an most in the industries, companies of similar size. You cannot invest unilaterally across the board. You have to make choices. And that makes a lot more sense to invest into partnership relationship with clients that will allow you to drive significant g rowth, there's a potential of significant growth. And tha t ' s what we've done. The cost of sales for very small account is higher. It is proven. We know tha t until a certain point in time you are spending an abnormal amount of time to close very small deals and not so much more time to close bigger deals. So that's a conscious decision to focus on le ss number of accounts, but be meaningful as a partner in these accounts, be their partner in the transformation and that's what we've done. So, I give you two da ta points, Kumar Rakesh; one , look at the top accounts of over 100 million. We've doubled the number of these accounts in tw o years from 11 to 22, as simple as that. Second thing, if you look at what we call our middle account, which are our top 80 account s, they've actually resisted a lot better than the smaller ones. I think it's just the confirmation that this is the right strategy. We need to continue to focus our attention on those accounts where there will be growth over the next quarters, but also ac counts that are shaping our industry and reduce the wasted investments in accounts where we will never go beyond a certain point.

BNP Paribas

The rationale behind the strategy is very well appreciated. My question was more around the timing of that strategy to bring into effect in full effect. Can that also be contributing or pulling down our revenue?

Thierry Delaporte

So, let me address this point also. What have we done in terms of growth strategy over the last three years, in the first two years has been a period of significant growth, there was significant growth in this market. We've gone all in, and we have really got a good share of the growth. If you look at the growth during that time, company has changed in scale, right. Over 40% increase in size in 10 quarters , market has changed. I think you will recognize that with me the market is different. There's more macro instability, uncertainty , cautiousness , everything. So, you know this is not a growth market right now. Let's face it , right. And so I think we recognized that this is not necessarily a market where anybody will shine in terms of growth . For us, what's key is to cont inu e our focus on our transformation; c ontinue to be more relevant, continue to drive our investment priorities around AI, around cloud, around security ; continue to upgrade our talent ; continue to be more nimble, more efficient and that's how we are , you will recognize that's how we continu e t o maintain and actually deliver the level of margins we are at in Q2. And so that's we are ready for when the market will bounce back to go back i nto growth mode.

Moderator

Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Gaurav Rateria from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Morgan Stanley

So, my first question is regarding initiatives taken by us to broaden our funnel to include mega deals wh ich are like $500 million plus kind of a TCV in pipeline and pursue the same. And relate d questions are also around the nature of bookings that we have had. Are they more on the cost side or more on the transformation side? Have we made any tweaks in strat egy to pivot to the changed market conditions when deals are coming more towards the cost optimization side ? Thank you.

Thierry Delaporte

Good question. Go off. So, I'll take a shot at those two upon. I feel free to jump in or I mean if you feel like it. So, on the first point, which is the focus on the larger deals, I think it was clear that back a few years ago , we were not getting our fair share of larger deals and you know, large deals are giving you a certain level of resilience and also a certain lev el of impact with the client and that is completely in the center of our strategy to develop as I said. Before to develop, you know strate gic relation and meaningful relation with our clients. So, to do so, with our CGO, Stephanie, w e've started to build o ur larger team, right, it started with bringing talent, people that have been that are big dealers that have been building larger teams in the past. We've also obviously refocused our account executives and our leaders to be ready to go for larger deals. It has positioned us t o engage at a different level with our clients. Let's pay more attention to their priorities and challenges and be proactive in bringing back to them solutions that would addr ess the challenges . And we've started to win larger deals. It started with one big one and then another big one, but it was more erratic at the beginning and then we started to win more of these large deals and larger ones in size. And I think it's becoming t he machine now inside Wipro, where you know as part of our deals, we have a significant volume of large deals every quarter and I think we expect this to continue over the next quarters, so that form the large deals. On the cost actions you ask or have , if I understood well your question was how did you balance focus on?

Aparna Iyer

He wants to understand whether the pipeline, the deals that you are winning ….

Thierry Delaporte

So, yes, that is, I would grab on the pipeline, I would s ay there is certainly an evolution of the type of deals that we are seeing and the attention to cost takeout , cost optimization, margin product ivit y and so on is certainly a lot bigger than it was some quarters ago . There is no doubt.

Moderator

Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Dipesh Mehta from Emkay . Pl ease go ahead.

Couple of questions. First, about sales and marketing increase. T his quarter , it is showing some spike percentage of revenue. There is a good uptake Q-o-Q, Y-o-Y. If you can help us understand what drives these significant of expression in sales and marketing. The related question is if I look number of new client s which we had every quarter , it is showing moderat ion for last few quarters. So, these two numbers are not matching with directionally , if you can provide some sense. Second question is about if I look reconciliation item , earlier we indicated some correction is driving that item. Now this quarter again it is increased. So, 2.2 billion loss in the line item. How we should understand this line item and how would you expect it to trend in the coming quarter? Thank you.

Aparna Iyer

So, Dipesh, to your point on sales and marketing expenses being high, it's specifically in reference to one of the li ne items on depreciation amortization where we have taken an accelerated amortization pertaining to one of our customer intangi bles and that is why it's a one-off and it should normalize over a period of time . The second piece that you said on the number of accounts being moderated, you know Thierry just answered that it is a part of the strategy , we are focusing on increasing and expanding our top client relationships and it is in line with what we are pursuing as a strategy overall. To your third question that you had asked on the reconciling items , last quarter that is in Q1 of this fiscal , we had announced that knowing to a turn in the macroeconom ic environment and for us in line with all the transformation that we are pursuing, we wanted to be more agil e and we had announced a restructuring program under which we had taken in restructuring expenses both in Q1 and we've indicated that there would be a spill over into Q2 , which has been now booked in the reconciling items. This is towards the employee seve rance costs and is one -off in nature and that is how you should model it.

So, is it now over from Q3 onwards this line item will not be there, or you expect it to recur?

Aparna Iyer

So, we're not calling out for any particular guidance o n this. We had said that it was one -of f in nature. We will need to take into account what is shifting and what's changing in our business. I f there is more update, we will share it with you in the next quarter .

Moderator

Thank you. We have our n ext question from the line of Abhishek Kumar from JM Financial. Please go ahead.

JM Financial

Thierry, you mentioned that you expect in next couple of quarters things to look up. I was just wondering what is driving your confidence. Are we seeing that t he runoff of discretionary proje ct s that we have witnessed over the last couple of quarters, is that coming to an end or you expect general demand to improve further?

Thierry Delaporte

Abhishek, thanks for your question. I'll try to address it by staying within our policy in terms of guidance. So, one is certainly the guidance for Q3 includes a certain volume of our furloughs, l et's be clear, bigger than it was the previous year , right. It's a fact which we don't necessarily expect to repeat for sure. Seco nd is the fact that quarter after quarter with our level of TCV, we continue to build the backlog of deals. So, there's a bigger proportion of our revenue that gets covered by contract if you like for the quarters to come. So, we are staying certainly caut ious and as you know, we are not guiding beyond this quarter, but it feels that we can reasonably expect a rebound to come after.

JM Financial

Sure, that's helpful. Just one follow -up maybe. So, on order backlog you mentioned, so while you know we are w inning deals, so inflow is good , at the same time there is depletion of current book of business. So, I know we don't give that number, but any color in terms of how the order backlog has improved over the past few quarters, given these two movements in different directions. Thank you.

Thierry Delaporte

Well, you know Abhishek, one, the type of deals includes a bigger proportion of larger deals than before, which will trigger a bigger stickiness in these accounts going forward, no doubt. Second, the very nature of those larger deals tends to be more strategic. So, the type of deals looking at our portfolio, we've done a lot of work over the last quarters to continue the rotation of our portfolio, market synergy based around data , around security, around cloud and engineering and this is what's happening. So, I would say the nature of these deals has certainly continued to evolve. There's a greater attention to cost rationalization. Therefore, producing business case, delivering outcomes , those are typically what we are seeing in the deals that we are closing, and I would say also we are seeing good volume of deals of clients working on the consolidation of thei r provide rs where we are seeing opportunities to expand our position in these accounts.

Moderator

Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Girish Pai from Nirmal Bang Equities. Please go ahead.

Nirmal Bang Equities

Thierry, how would you characterize the mood of clients, would you say they seem more optimistic or pessimistic today compared to say when you interact with them three months back or six months back? That's question number one.

Thierry Delaporte

If I understood well, Girish , you asked me to characterize the mood of the market of the clients ?

Nirmal Bang Equities

Mood of the clients , right?

Thierry Delaporte

So, it's an interesting question , Girish. It is every day I speak to clients, right. So, for sure, I try to gauge their mood and their prioritie s and so on. W hat do I see? First of all, technology is in lot of their priorities. They are very mature about technology. They have a lot of ambition about how technology will transform their business. They're very curious about how AI and GenAI is ei th er impacting or transforming or helping them be more efficient in their industry, and a lot of those discussions are around that. There is a certain level of cautiousness to engage in a new progra m . There is a certain level of cautiousness to spend as much as what they used to spend in the previous quarter or in the previous years. So, t hey are like you and me. So, they are reading the newspaper every day. They see the news on the American economy, European economy, the war, here and there, and the fact that all of this is creating a certain level of instability and anxiety. A lot of people are starting to project themselves and say, okay , it's going to be time to resume some of those programs because the business will obviously suffer from l ess attention to technology. So, that's the mood, I would say is in a way cautious and anxious, but at the same time very aware of the fact that it's going to be time to resume those investments sooner than later. Over to you.

Nirmal Bang Equities

Regarding your re marks that you made, a lot of comments on G enerative AI. In your operations , to what extent are you using G enerative AI today and where are you on that journey and where do you think maybe like 12 months down the road and what are the kind of productivity gains you had and connected with that are the clients you mentioned that lot of the conversations around Generative AI, are they actually asking for ? Regarding generative AI if you can give some more explanation? Subha Tatavarti: This is Subha Tatavarti. I'm the CTO. We heard parts of your question and I want to kind of address some parts of it. One was around what is our strategy. We believe that G enerative AI will fundamentally change many businesses and also the way we live. So, we have been very, very aggressive and in the last six months we have adopted G enerative AI to streamline our technology business processes as well as people. A nd this is very, very early, but early signs are indicative of productivity gains and in many areas , we talked a little bit about in the HR space, specifically around background checks, a lot of work we do is around employee hiring, retention training a nd managing. So, a lot of our work is now being streamlined, at least i n early parts of our work wit h Generative AI in this space are very positive and encouraging in terms of productivity gains. Similarly on the quality assurance and testing practice, this has been quite interesting because in the last 2 to 3 months , the kind of highlights we've ran are indicative that we can significant ly reduce the amount of time or the number of hours it would take for us to be able to perfor m functional testing or perform specifically around data generation environment setup . So, the early tests and early pilots are very encouraging, and we hope to continue to give you updates on this and the rollout as well as how we'll take our learnings from internal adoption to our custome r s shortly .

Moderator

Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Sandeep Shah from Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.

Equirus Securities

If I just look at the third quarter guidance and look at the first 9 months of this financial year, it ' s likely to be a 4% decline on a Y-o-Y basis in constant currency term s, which would be one of the lowest in the industry and this would be a second period in a row where our growth on orga nic basis would be actually lower than the industry. So, Thierry, my question is do we need t o introspect our growth strategy, our offerings, do you believe is there any gap in the offerings or is it we have to actually check and introspect our go -to-market model because deal wins are one indicator which everybody is winning but our growth rates have been lagging quarter after quarter and per iod after period starting from FY 22 on organic business?

Thierry Delaporte

So, Sandeep , we are very clearly at Wipro on the way we want to progress, we have our own journey. We are to define our own strategy and we have our own ambition and our own focu s. Over the quarters, there have been quarters where we've grown a little more, some of them we've grown less and that's a reality. What matters is to look at the progression over the certain per iod of time and look at what we've done over the last years, and I think you'll have a response in ter ms of our growth strategy. The growth that this organization, this leadership team has been able to drive over the last 3 years is actually a pretty decent level of growth. We always want more grow t h, trust me, Sandeep, but at the same time we are focusing on our transformation as much as we are focusing on the day -to-day performance and that's incredibly important. You need to reflect and understand that. The way we have redefined our ambition, the way we have invested in our organization, in talent, in ca pabilities, in solutions, the way we've invested in our systems, the way we have invested in consulting capability is to reposition ourselves in our operating model, in our own efficiency, all of that is to be taken into account and you cannot take only one element of the performance in isolation of the rest. That's how we are looking at our progression . We are happy with where we are for sure. We're always trying to do more, and we are always ambitious to do more, but we are looking ahead of us, quite conf ident at our opportunity to get back into growt h a s the market gets a little better frankly .

Equirus Securities

And just a related question, when you expect a pickup in the growth and rebound in the growt h, is it fair to assume that fourth quarter onwards the guidance m ay not indicate any kind of a Q -on-Q dip? Are you indicating a rebound from 4Q or maybe 1 Q of the next financial year?

Thierry Delaporte

No, Sandeep, no, you will not get anything more from me. You know, we are not guiding beyond the current quarter.

Equirus Securities

And a question to CFO , Aparna, just in terms of margins, wage hikes are effective from 1st of December and Q3 looks like from the guidance is likely to be a soft quarter. So, in that scenario, still a flattish or a narrow band movement on the margin is still feasible or there could be some seasonal impact on the margin because of the slower growth and the wage hikes effective December?

Aparna Iyer

Hi Sandeep, yes, you've already highlighted the headwinds that we ar e starting quarter three with. There will be pressure on margins. We've done very well on remaining resilient in the first half. The efficiency measures have only intensified. It will be a challenging task, that's why we've said that our endeavor will be to be range bound in terms of what we've delivered over the last few quarters , but I agree with you that there are more headwinds as we start the quarter.

Moderator

Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Ravi Menon from Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Macquarie

Thierry, you mentioned about your win rates in the last years in Europe being 100%. Could you comment a bit on how that changed in the US over the last few years?

Thierry Delaporte

You specifically to Europe, Ravi, correct?

Macquarie

Specifically, to US, Thierry .

Thierry Delaporte

So, I would say, well, we do not have a 100% score in your US , it doesn't mean it's a bad score. I think we've done very well in the US as well. We just highlighted the 100% score in Europe because we consider that this is quite a performance, but the performance, the win rate is actually improving and strong in the US, like it is in in Europe or actually in Asia PAC , Ravi.

Macquarie

So, overall, you would say that you've seen win rates improved and your pipeline as well and that's why we're seeing the deal T CV, right overall ….

Thierry Delaporte

What we are seeing is that we are getting better at qualifying the deals that we see in the pipeline to reduce the lost investments, if you like. And so, it is definitely delivering results. There's no doubt that when we have gone through the qualification process and feel that this is a deal that we c an win, then the entire mobilization of the team is her e to drive it till the finish line.

Macquarie

Thank you. One last follow -up on Europe. We saw a surprising decline here, any specific industry or country that was responsible la rgely for this?

Thierry Delaporte

Yes, you're right. It is a surprising decl ine for Europe. I can imagine for you given the way we held pretty strongly the previous quarter, I think I'm looking at Aparna just, but to me this is financia l services primarily and manufacturing, so two sectors , no, I mean we haven't lost any account or it's not like we've had a drama but certainly some significant slowdown noticed in some of our large accounting in financial services and manufacturing in Europe. Having said that, that's what Ravi, if I can just add one element. Pipeline continues to be strong in Europe. The leadership team in Europe is pretty bullish. So, it gives confidence that Europe will bounce back rapidly.

Moderator

Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Apurva Prasad from HDFC Securities. Please go ahead.

HDFC Securities

Thierry, it would be interesting to know your thoughts in BFSI vertical in terms of how you see the impact of potential Basel III Endgame proposals on US banks and the resultant impact on tax spend. And a related piece could be on some large banking customers who are carrying out the org structure change in terms of delayering their personnel. So, do you see this as an opportu nit y for incumbents such as Wipro or should that be more continued pressure?

Thierry Delaporte

Apurva, y our questions are specific to the financial services sector. I think certainly th e fi n ancial services sector has been significantly slower this year. I think we are seeing it across the board. It actually started in America, then it moved to Europe. We are seeing places in particular type of Tier 2, maybe banks in America where t he growth is coming back. So, I would say these are definitely places in the banks where, when I was referring earlier discussions, I've had with clients telling me we have a lot of programs that are in the waiting room ready to be launched and start , certainly in the banks it's a reality. Banks are definitely focusing on c ost takeout and productivity exercise. There's a lot of consolidation activities going on, which we see it as an opportunit y f or us, no doubt, absolutely no doubt. So, that's what we are doing.

Moderator

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference back to Mr. Dipak Bohra for closing comments. Over to you , sir.

Thank you all for joining the call. In case we could not take any questions due to time constraints, please feel free to reach out to Investor Relations team. Have a nice evening. Thank you so much.

Moderator

Thank you. On behalf of Wipro Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining u s and you may now disconnect your lines. Wipro L imited ( NYSE: WIT, BSE 507685, NSE: WIPRO) is a leading glo bal information technology, c ons ulting and business process services company. W e harness the pow er of cogni tive computing, hyp er-automation, r obotics, clo ud, analy tics and emerging technologies t o help our clie nts adapt to the di gital world and make them successful. A company r ecogni zed glo bally for i ts comprehensive por tfolio of servic es, strong co mmitment to sustainability and good corpor ate citizenship, we hav e over 240,000 dedicated employees s erving c lie nts across s ix continents. Together, we disco ver ideas and conn ect the dots t o build a better and a bold new f uture. For more i nformation, pl ease write to us at info@wipro.com